question regarding electronic throttle control and the bcm

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stroker97k1500
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question regarding electronic throttle control and the bcm

Post by stroker97k1500 »

my dad and I want to buy a "project"(3.0v6) toyota 4x4 truck 89-95 model and put a 4.8L 4l60e package in it.
I want to put the newer 09-11 LY2 with variable valve timing and the cylinder deactivation.
I see it has a returnless fuel rail system which will be interesting to learn how that works...
And electronic throttle body that does away with the "tac" bc of the ECM. I wonder how hard it is to set up this new fly by wire setup and the fuel pump and tank setup with with the returnless fuel rail. Does anyone have any thoughts or info on this ?
TIA

Speeder
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Post by Speeder »

Yes, that's an awful lot of effort to go through to use a 4LPOS60E, when that same setup will handle a 6L80E. I'd suggest that if you are going to step up, step all the way up. And, I don't think (could be wrong) that they made the 4.8L with the cylinder deactivation stuff. If they did OK, but you may need to look at a 5.3 for this. I can't imagine what a 5.3/6L80E would get for mileage in a small Toyota truck, considering how that setup got me 18-19MPG in a loaded Suburban being driven aggressively.

On the 4LPOS60E vs 6L80E: I've never driven a 4LPOS60E that didn't feel like it was made of rubber bands, even a brand new one. On the other hand, the 6L80E felt like an actual transmission even with the heavy load it was pulling. The only fault I found with the 6L80E was it seemed to hunt for the right gear a little more than I thought it should, but it wasn't that bad considering I'm used to my custom programmed transmission that doesn't know what gear hunting is. The little bit of gear hunting there is could be dealt with via EFI Live.

The DBW setup is just a bolt-in thing, with a wiring harness that plugs into the ECM. Can't imagine why a BCM would be needed since the BCM is there for things that don't need computer control, like the headlights, wipers and AC.

Returnless systems mean there is no return line on the fuel rails. Usually there is a return line at the fuel filter, or the ECM controls the fuel pump by varying power to the pump to manage pressure. I wouldn't think it would be any harder to do than a return system. Unless the existing fuel line is big enough most folks wind up running a new fuel line then they use the factory fuel line on the vehicle as a return line. Where you might run into a problem would be at the fuel tank because you'll either have to find a way to adapt a Chevy fuel pump to the Toyota tank, or cut the top out of a Chevy tank and weld it to the Toyota tank so as to be able to mount the fuel pump. If you go with a Chevy pump, there's also a matter of finding a bucket that is correct depth for the Toyota tank. There's also using an aftermarket pump fitted to the Toyota bucket.

Whipped383
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Post by Whipped383 »

Most of those toyota fuel pumps where just a pump on a stick. It might supply enough pressure or just put a pre98 chev one in its place. As for returnless systems you could use a filter that has a regulator built in and has the return line on it. Does GM even still make a 4l60e?

Speeder
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Post by Speeder »

Whipped383 wrote:Does GM even still make a 4l60e?
Man I sure hope not.

stroker97k1500
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Post by stroker97k1500 »

I will be into this soon I hope but I do have 2 80e's in my possession but was wanting a better overdrive ratio with such a light truck.... I am not a fan on the pos60e but it was only a weekend driver and won't be abused pulling anythig. I may no use one but who knows

JR96CK
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Post by JR96CK »

A 4L60E will live just fine in what you'e putting it in, so I wouldn't "waste" (for lack of a better term) a good 80E on something that won't overtax the 4L60E at all. The 4L60E is alive and well in the Colorado/Canyon trucks, not sure what esle they have them in right now though. I know you could still get the full size with the 60E as long as it was a 4.8 liter engine through the 2013 model year. Moving up to the 5.3 forced you to move up to the 6L80E in the full size trucks. Since the 4L60E doesn;t have an integral controller, there must be a standalone TCM installed next to the Gen-IV engine controller (E67, for example). Might be worth looking into robbing the PCM, TCM, BCM, etc. out of a Colorado/Canyon or full size with the 60E.

KennyB01
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Post by KennyB01 »

my 96 silverado had a 4L60' i always assumed the E was electronic controlled, so i do not know if it was a "E" or not. but had i it rebuilt three times and went different routs when i had it done and i never could get a good "feel good" shift out of it. but stroker has been around a while, so i am sure he has already thought of this. i just let 2 4L80's go about a month ago, one was what i call the first gen. out of a 91 and one was a second gen. out of a 99. if i had the knowledge some of you have here i would have keep them. they needed rebuilt though. a mater of fact i have a 92 one that i might keep from a 3500 truck that i am fixing to strip because the diesel is bad.

stroker97k1500
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Post by stroker97k1500 »

After a bit more research I found the 4.8 unfortunately didn't have AFM fuel cut off stuff, but did get the VVT. I just haven't messed with the electronic throttle control yet or a fuel pump being cycled like PWM by the ECM..... Kinda weird. It will be interesting to get to that point and see what we can rig up.

And as far as the 4L60e goes..... Yes I am definitely NOT a fan of them and would discourage the trans for anyone looking for a long lasting unit. This will be a stock 4.8L and the torque management may even be left "on" and there won't be a whole lot of miles out on the truck.( more of a father/son bonding experience) for my dad to drive to his buddies and open up the hood to have something to talk about...but unless I find a 6L80e cheap I may just freshen up a 60/65e and see how long it could last being sensibly driven and never towing anything... Worst case I can stick the 80e in it with the TCI gear set in it if it grenades. Lol

I think my huge hurdle is going to be the fuel delivery.

z71gmc06
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Post by z71gmc06 »

I still have my 4L60E in my truck going on 160,000.

Granted it is just my daily driver and I rarely tow anything, but it is still going.

And these transmissions are used in plenty of cars without major problems so I would say it would be just fine for your application.

Speeder
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Post by Speeder »

I wouldn't think the fuel delivery will be a problem. You'd just need to get the wiring harness from the computer to the fuel pump from the donor, and perhaps the fuel pump assembly. Worst comes to worst, take the fuel tank as well. If the height of the Toy tank is close to the same height as the donor tank then it would just involve cutting a section out of the donor tank around the fuel pump mount, then cutting a smaller hole from the Toy tank and welding the donor part to the Toy tank. There's stuff you can put in the two tanks to keep from igniting the gasoline, or I've heard (will definitely want to verify this!) that you can just fill the tank with water and safely weld. Going at it this way will allow you to ask for stock replacement parts for the donor truck when you need to replace the pump.

If there's a huge difference in tank height where the fuel pump goes in, then building a fuel cell might be the way to go but that goes past what I'd be offering advice for :lol:

Whipped383
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Post by Whipped383 »

Man you guys sure rag on the 60e. Im not a fan either but mine has almost 180k on it and about 50k have been with the boosted 383 and I towed a shitload more than a half ton shoulda with it. The previous owner also towed with it. I guess I should just count myself lucky.

Never heard of PWM fuel pumps are you sure the engine your looking at uses one?

playtoy_18
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Post by playtoy_18 »

PWM pumps generally use an FRP (fuel rail pressure) sensor to vary voltage to the fuel pump (generally via a module). Haven't messed with any on GM but ford used it quite a bit.
Was never a big deal to diag,was nicer since you have a fuel pressure pid to watch (though it did need verified manually sometimes and could vary by a percentage).
Personally I would switch to a returnless system and pwm pump just for the fuel pressure pid.

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