Here is the original



and the new one of the same image, but enlarged section


If this is as I think, it is a pre-existing stress raiser (crack)

If not, then this shear plane moved over a bit. So the question is why? what is there to
cause this?

If China is able to sell us food tainted with melamine, who the heck knows what they put in their forgings as a "filler".

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122158011929343485.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

And even if there is quality control, how strict is it?

Is every crank thoroughly tested, every 10th, every 100th??

Don't get me started on workmanship...

Half of the machinists hired in my plant in the past 2 years have been Chinese "off the Boat" I could write a Seinfeld episode about these guys...

Their concepts of mechanics are quite different than north-Americans.

On an other note...

I saw manufacturing prices of our valves made in china, about 10% of the production cost of ours. So Eagle should be able to replace your crank without sweating it too much.

Bent 1... I wished I could answer your ?'s
edit:
I originally wrote something else here while I was a little agitated by Brian @ Eagle but upon coming back to read it I deleted it and wanted to put something to the point and not so much like ranting ( not how I intended it to come across).... well I called and asked for Brian and it seems he is now out on vacation until after Thanksgiving.. After waiting on him to call me or contact me like he said he would do after he looked at the crank. He didn't even give me an update or at least a courtesy call to let me know up front that he might not be able to get to look at the crankshaft before he went on vacation. He is the "only" person there that handles these types of issues according to the 2 other people there I spoke with today.
To me this is Piss Poor customer service so far.
Robby



Last edited by stroker97k1500 on Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:38 pm; edited 4 times in total

Robby, my question just speaking out loud to everyone & myself.

Customer satisfaction/service isn't what it used to be and part of the running thread
over the 'Side Garage'..."plea for help from GM"

I'd just give him the benefit of doubt that he was trying like heck to get out of town
and swamped. Not an excuse, just a reason.

Since it at the very end rod, not going to be a back fire or some such shock. As that
would tend to break it on the other side of the end rod.

Not over torqued, as the shear pattern would be different.

This is a bending brake. Assume this is the 'center' or 'pivot' point of the bending.

So did the bending come from the other rods? Most likely not. Did it come from
the other end towards the harmonic balancer. Most likely yes. Maybe a combo
between'm with balance the main culprit.

Or, was there a stress raiser there before the engine was assembled? Why I've
focused on rusty spots, which would indicate fracture before assembly. Forged
is tougher than snoot with cast iron kinda sorta if handled properly, but too many
don't know, nor understand how brittle cast iron is. I also think okay for 99.9% of
the applications out there...except for us Boy Racers pushing the envelope.

IF stress raiser before assembly, then each power stroke of the nearest rod
would have bent it right there....and/or an unbalance condition exacerbated it.

It would be interesting to match the grain separation direction vs the power stroke.
Bet it will match, but can't since you had to drive it, which pounded out the grain
end structures.

Good luck!

-Ben

Well Yesterday I received a call from fedex saying they were at my house trying to deliver a crankshaft and another box of parts and they needed a signature. I had no clue anything was being shipped to me. I met the driver at another stop close to my work and signed for the packages... I am not sure exactly what setup was sent to me but it has a cast crankshaft. It's amazing how a little communication from the guy could have made things go more easily and more professionally... To be completely honest, I don't want any of this fragile cast iron crap. I wouldn't trust putting all that time, effort and money in another engine for it to do the same thing again if there is something defective with this one also.....And I never received any email back from them that they were going to send me anything, or to ask me what it would take to make me satisfied, or the reason for why it broke, or even what they were sending me..
Brian said he would make it worth my while in parts to send him back the crankshaft... To me that means asking me what would make it worth my while(within his authority to do so) or sending me a Forged Crankshaft and/or assy that might resist breaking.. guess that just might dip into their budget to go a little further and make sure a customer is satisfied I dont understand why he even tried if he only did it half assed... who does that help out?. The answer is NO! I AM NOT SATISFIED.
So I am out all the labor.....3-4 Grand in parts/machine work on a ruined block, ect... but I have a nice new externally balanced cast crankshaft....
Robby



Last edited by stroker97k1500 on Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:38 pm; edited 3 times in total

It sucks to here there communication line is crap. Atleast they sent you some parts to replace what was broken, forged would have been a better "I'm sorry". Atleast you can ebay the parts and recoop some more funds.

Wes

I decided to open the box for the hell of it to see what was inside... there was rod and main bearings, a harmonic balancer and a flex plate... and in the other box there is a cast crankshaft. he was supposed to contact me to discuss what he could or could not do for me when he got the crank and looked at it and he wanted to look at the crank first before anything.... so I sent it and was waiting on just that! He assumed the crank was the only broken part and didn't bother to make any phone calls or email me.... all of this could have been prevented by simple communication and effort on his part. the # 1 and 2 rods were bent or twisted which they would not "float" on the wrist pin at all anymore and the piston skirts were worn way more than the other 6 cyls were for some reason.

So I guess the proper way to make a disgruntled customer happy is to just send a bunch of parts that they cant use with out talking to the customer first and not follow through and ask what they might need or even offer a discount to "buy" an upgraded rotating assy with a steel crank.

man this is professional!!!!!



Last edited by stroker97k1500 on Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:40 pm; edited 2 times in total

that sucks, I myself would never use Eagle products, and after reading what they did to you just makes my feelings tward Eagle even stronger. sorry about what happened, that would piss me off so bad.

I contacted Brian at eagle again today to get their address for return shipment of the 2 broken pistons and rods. He said that he didn't like what I wrote about him on this website and that he was going to cut HIS LOSSES and not send me the 2 pistons and rods that he already promised he would(in a previous conversation with him after I received the parts). while I had him on the phone I pulled up what was said and told him that I was completely fair on what was put on here and everything I wrote was the EXACT TRUTH and I meant every word of it! He could have had spent just a moment more of his time and called me like he said he was going to do and explain what he was sending to me and what he could do "like he said he would as soon as he got the crankshaft" BUT HE DID NOT... INSTEAD HE JUST SENT SOME STUFF THAT DOES ME NO GOOD BY ITSELF.. AND HE SAID IF HE WERE ME THAT HE WOULD BE HAPPY BY AT LEAST GETTING SOME PARTS.....I TOLD HIM "I" AM THE ONE OUT OF 3-4 THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH OF AN ENGINE THAT BROKE BECAUSE OF THEIR PRODUCT FAILING AND ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS FOLLOW THROUGH AND DO WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO. I told him that I still do think he handled the situation very un professionally and this whole outcome would have turned out better for them and for me with just a little effort on his part to do what he said he would.........
And he is cutting his losses! Lets compare losses here!!!!!!I guess they don't really give a crap about customers satisfaction! It really wouldn't have taken much out of their pocket to make me satisfied....or maybe 1 just one dang phone call to let me know what was going on like was promised!


If anyone visits any performance forum that has to do with gm tucks, cars or anything else pertaining to someone who might purchase an eagle crankshaft or product... post this link to this page on the web site so that people will know how eagle backs their products and how SORRY their customer service and quality is!!!

Robby



Last edited by stroker97k1500 on Wed May 27, 2009 9:29 pm; edited 3 times in total

stroker97k1500 wrote:

If anyone visits any performance forum that has to do with gm tucks, cars or anything else pertaining to someone who might purchase an eagle crankshaft or product... post this link to this page on the web site so that people will know how eagle backs their products and how SORRY their customer service and quality is!!!

Robby

V8S10.org, gotcha covered. If Brian at Eagle read this page, then he should have been very aware that shoddy service after the sale is heard 'round the world these days.

Seems like several posts on the V8S10 board weren't so kind, but at least it's getting the word out. For the record, I'm in your corner on this one. I know you didn't just slap that engine together haphazardly. Regardless of whether or not it was a less-expensive cast piece, it still should not have done this. Stock GM cast cranks hold up to quite a lot of abuse, so why shouldn't you be able to expect at least that level of durability here? The rep at Eagle certainly should have been better about contacting you and staying in touch. Seems as though you were simply blown off for several days. Not acceptable. They could have easily provided you with the necessary components to replace what was ruined... after all, they did essentially admit that the crank failure was on them. They did not seem to argue any other possible cause at all. I don't think any comments you have made here have been juvenile or out of place in the least, as you've simply made people aware of what this company's customer service model is. I would have done the same and would have been just as steamed by the response (or lack thereof), and now this pouting by the rep at Eagle. I have used Callies in the past and have nothing but great things to say about their products and their customer service. I've also used Scat for a more cost-conscious stroker build. No problems there, but it was not as nice as the Callies piece. Needless to say, I will never consider Eagle products at all after seeing how poorly all this was handled. Again, I'm sorry to see your engine project having been trashed because of this, but hopefully your experience will resonate with others here and at least may save them potential grief.

JR96CK wrote:

Seems like several posts on the V8S10 board weren't so kind, but at least it's getting the word out. For the record, I'm in your corner on this one. I know you didn't just slap that engine together haphazardly. Regardless of whether or not it was a less-expensive cast piece, it still should not have done this. Stock GM cast cranks hold up to quite a lot of abuse, so why shouldn't you be able to expect at least that level of durability here? The rep at Eagle certainly should have been better about contacting you and staying in touch. Seems as though you were simply blown off for several days. Not acceptable. They could have easily provided you with the necessary components to replace what was ruined... after all, they did essentially admit that the crank failure was on them. They did not seem to argue any other possible cause at all. I don't think any comments you have made here have been juvenile or out of place in the least, as you've simply made people aware of what this company's customer service model is. I would have done the same and would have been just as steamed by the response (or lack thereof), and now this pouting by the rep at Eagle. I have used Callies in the past and have nothing but great things to say about their products and their customer service. I've also used Scat for a more cost-conscious stroker build. No problems there, but it was not as nice as the Callies piece. Needless to say, I will never consider Eagle products at all after seeing how poorly all this was handled. Again, I'm sorry to see your engine project having been trashed because of this, but hopefully your experience will resonate with others here and at least may save them potential grief.

X2, I will pass on the poor attitude and unprofessionalism of customer service at Eagle, along with the poor quality of work and craftmanship. I certainly would be just as pissed off as Robby, if this happened to me, so if I can prevent every one i meet from buying an Eagle product that is exactly what I will do. I will make it a specific point to talk poeple out of buying any Eagle product so they don't have to deal with this bs.

Randall

if he really wanted to "cut his losses" he should have been smart and sent a complete forged rotating assembly and all new bearings and rings as well as a balancer and flexplate and sent it to you all balanced with a letter of apology.

that company can afford that a hell of a lot more than they can afford all the lost customers and bad rep that will be spread from this site.

what a baby, sorry he doesnt like what people say. i got news for him - i would rather have people say bad things about me than bad things about my product or service. the whole time i was on the project team at best buy i was known as an asshole - but gets the job done, which is why my team was requested to do some of the more demanding gigs.

oh well, im telling everyone i know not to use anything from Eagle - period.

All the see is the up front revenue and think of after sales as an over head or
sink hole.

Look at Dell. They have just announced that they are pulling their call centers
back home on American soil. Took them a decade or so, but they finally saw
the 'real' picture of their over all product...not just their bottom line...

Many years, back when partner in small motor control firms, we made tons
more % profit on holidays and long winter shut downs at our customers
plants.

Sold tons and tons of both spare parts and service. Down time is huge in
any automated line, so they loath to shut down.

Once we found out that they shut down for their winter holiday break, we
made a full court press to sell them spare parts and get our service person
to 'live' on their line while they replaced/repaired/etc stuff.

Used up last years spares, so 'fresh' spared went into their stockroom.

Folks I know who work for dealerships, all say their parts and service
departments keep their doors open during lean times.

For 'me', I'd never use a cast iron crank on a highly stressed engine. Too
many things can happen during the process. Mainly dropped or something
hitting it. On the ones helped assemble or design, always insist that they
have all ferrous parts shotpeened. Even the block & heads.

It's the whole package, not just the piece parts...

I wanted to first say thanks to speeder for taking the extra time and effort to explain on the other forum basically why I was a disgruntled about the customer service of eagle when dealing with them with this issue. And thanks to every one else who agreed or even disagreed with me or how I handled the situation and so I could look at my actions through the eyes of others.
Basically I know that I could have kept my cool toward the end and tried to kiss ass a little longer(but I wasn't going to and didn't feel I need to) and probably gotten 2 more rods and 2 pistons to replace the warped ones that I had left to replace and possibly have enough parts minus machine shop work on the block(if re-buildable), oil pump, gaskets, head work, and all the other stuff that could possibly be entailed with putting the motor back together... but In my personal opinion I didn't feel that the rep from Eagle did what he said he would and only put forth a half assed effort in trying to get me atleast "some" parts for a re-build. Brian at eagle knew this was being watched by other people and could have used it as a way to really promote eagle parts and how they "could have" gone a little further to keep "me" as a customer. I thought I was completely fair in what I stated and gave him the benefit of the doubt in what he might or might not do for me. What I was pissed off about was how he told me he would contact me after he looked at the crank and discuss things with me and he said in writing he would make it worth my while in parts if I sent him the broken crankshaft... which he did not.... The crank cost about $40 to ship back to them also... which I paid for. To me he could have taken a few minutes and just communicated with me after he supposedly looked at the broken crank and just told me where he stood and what they were actually going to do or not do or ask me what it would take to make me continue using their product. Basically I knew that the time, effort, money and other parts were basically lost and I wasn't going to even ask them to replace all the other crap that broke due to the crank failure.... I would have been satisfied if he was to send me a forged crank and other parts to make a rotating assy.. and I would have just been out all the money from the original build and the extra that I would have to put back into the motor to get the block up to par or get another one if that one was not build able.... AND Eagle would have come out on top as well by backing their product and having good customer service after the sale ... To me that would be a "good will" effort on their part ( it wouldn't replace near what it cost me for the failure) but it would have shown that they went the extra mile to "TRY" to make it right for their part failing and that would go a long way with anyone else who read it and for me as well.

I would like to clarify that
(1) I did not take ANY half assed short cuts on putting this motor together PERIOD

(2) I used the correct NEUTRAL Pioneer LT1 balancer and Pioneer l31 flexplate with the weight removed as instructed by Eagle and the distributor I bought this balanced rotating assy from.
(3) I am not someone who expects something for nothing and if I did HAPPEN to do something that caused a failure or half ass something and if it was my fault I would own up to it and definitely not have even called Eagle.

I know I am not perfect and won't claim to come anywhere close to it. but I did take all the necessary precautions and spent the extra time and money on other parts with this build to make sure this engine was going to last me and it was disappointing to me that a balanced rotating assy rated up to 500 hp broke not even having 400hp NA on regular pump gas.
If I had it to do all over again I would have just spent the extra few hundred dollars and bought a forged crankshaft and bought used some rods similar to the eagle rods that came with the kit and hyper pistons and the motor would be still running fine today..... we all live and learn through our mistakes.... but I will never make the mistake again and trust any EAGLE product in any engine I ever have from now on. Why would you buy a product from a company who doesn't care if their product breaks or fails in your engine.... YOU the end customer is the one who is S.O.L if their stuff breaks on you..so with that in mind buy from a company who actually cares... their are a lot of other better quality parts and Companies that I am sure would back their product AND TAKE PRIDE IN THEIR QUALITY AND WHAT IMAGE AND REPUTATION THEIR COMPANY HAS or make parts that live up to their standards or ratings. I didn't have the power that the Eagle cast crank was supposedly rated to handle and didn't think it was necessary to buy a forged crank if I was under their rated power for the crank and wasn't using a super charger just N.A.. So basically their 500hp rating on their cranks were worthless.
I am through, I just hope that no one else has to go through this and has to learn the hard way like I did.
Take care,
Robby

i have the same problem with same charicteristics funny exhaust note then wobbly harmonic balancer and a broken eagle cast iron crankshaft all internally balanced with neutral balancer and fly wheel. srp pistons eagle i beam rods and a cast eagle crank. my engine is a two pieace rear seal unit but still rotates like all internal combustion engines. the engine has less than 20 000 kilometers and was all professionaly built in canada by a reputable shop and balanced by dyno-flo in las vegas. but now it is broken. wtf. i'm contacting eagle myself and if the guy on this topic wants to speak with me we may have a better chance on this stupidity. i'm going for a new crank free of cost and i'll give the old one back. if i don't get a new one i'm gona get a name of a hire up and mail it to his office. seriously.

i'm gona also see if the guys at mopac here in edmonton canada will let me sit the crank on there sales counter for a while just to deter any suspecting buyers of this shitty product.....

i have over $7000.00 into this engine alone and eagle destroyed it. if i don't get remuneration i'm gona visit, eagle who ever, my self in person face to face and i'll remember a guys name Robby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eagle let me down in canada in the winter at minus -30 degree weather in edmonton canada lucky to be alive..............

Hows about you two with failed cranks sync up with some data.

Like date you received those cranks. Then need to see if they
are from the same lot number. Stuff like that.

If they are ISO compliant, then traceability 'should' be there.

Ranges from bad batch of castings, to a bunch of them fell over
and dropped to a concrete floor. At the warehouse, at the machine
shop, at the stock room, during assembly, etc.

Me thinks they knew of this or was afraid of this coming...

Key is to sync up information. Casting lot number. Machining
lot number, heat treatment lot numbers, etc, etc.

Then analysis of the numbers. If they built 200 that year, then
we have 2 failed out of that year, which is 2%. Not a significant
number, but if they built 20 that year, then 10% is is...



Last edited by Bent1 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total