411 Swap begun... 100% COMPLETE.

Performance modifications, tips & tricks

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Silent Thunder
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Heartland Texas - '96 GMC Ext. Cab Sierra 411 pcm. - 383 stroker & marine intake, 411.

411 Swap begun... 100% COMPLETE.

Post by Silent Thunder »

I started the 411 swap today. I was just sitting on the couch watching some crapy show that I didn't feel like watching, and then I just went out into the garage and started unhooking all the connectors. I have been dreading this swap, but after I've got most of it done, its really not that bad. There are still a few wires that I've got to finish/splice. During the swap I ran across some discrepancies to the awesome speadsheet that Jeff (Lextech) created. This could be that my truck is a 1996 and I remember when Aloicious was the first to do this for the '96 models and he ran into differences from the '97's.

Below are some pics of the swap. I'm going to go over my notes right now and post my questions I've got on some of the wires.

This pic is the connectors from the black box.

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Weird - these two wires (purple/white and green/black) were secluded from the others in the bundle. Trans wires???

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Missing blackbox... :D
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Truck in garage
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This is were I left off.
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Josh
Last edited by Silent Thunder on Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

97k15004wd
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:32 pm
Location: Waikikamukau

Post by 97k15004wd »

Looking good!

Silent Thunder
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Heartland Texas - '96 GMC Ext. Cab Sierra 411 pcm. - 383 stroker & marine intake, 411.

Here come a few questions.

Post by Silent Thunder »

Ok here are the things I need clarification on. They may be simple, I hope. (Sorry for so many questions, I figured I would ask them all at once.)

Question #1
C1-25 on the 96-97pcm goes to C1-29 and on the 411pcm, no problem there. Except, the spreadsheet says it should be tan/wht wire. Mine are only tan, I looked all the way back to the splice and it is tan all the way. I don't know what problem this may pose.

Question #2
C3-4 on the 96-97pcm goes to Main Splice? Is this main splice farther in the main harness somewhere?
Spreadsheet says "ECT/TP sensor ground on the 96-97. Now on the 411 the ECT ground goes to C1-80 for low reference. TPS ground goes to C1-60 for low reference. These 2 wires are tied together at the main ground splice."

Question #3
C3-7 on the 96-97pcm goes to C2-22 on the 411pcm. The only problem with this is... there was no wire there in the C3-7 spot from the 96-97pcm. It should be a dark blue/white wire. Does this wire come from somewhere else?

Question #4
C3-8 on the 96-97pcm goes to C2-23 on the 411pcm. Once again, no wire here. It should be a red/black wire. Where does it come from?

Question #5
C3-14 on the 96-97pcm goes to C2-11 on the 411pcm. Once again, no wire here. It should be a dark blue wire. Where does it come from?

Question #6
C3-18 on the 96-97pcm goes to C2-1 & C2-40 on the 411pcm. This wire on mine was black/white stripe. Spreadsheet says it should be only black. Don't know what problem this may pose.

Question #7
C3-19 on the 96-97pcm goes to Main Splice? Is this some sort of ground? Because the spreadsheet says it goes to 4 different 411 pins. (IAT ground C2-57, MAP ground C1-54, EGR ground C1-41, TFT ground C1-53)Once again, where does these wires come from?

Question #8
C3-30 on the 96-97pcm goes to C2-55 on the 411pcm. Once again, no wire here. It should be a dark green wire. Where does this one come from?

Question #9
C4-7 on the 96-97pcm goes to C2-33 on the 411pcm. Once again, no wire here. It should be a dark green wire. Where does this one come from?

Question #10
C4-18 on the 96-97pcm goes to C1-19 on the 411pcm. Pink wire. Already has a pink wire in that spot from C1-4 on the 96-97pcm. Do I need to splice the C4-18 into that first one?

Question #11
On the spreadsheet after all the wires are switched over, the spreadsheet starts over again. But, the two columns for the different pcm's are reversed. Is this section meant for checking the work, or is there more wire swapping to do from the second half of the spreadsheet? I went through this section and checked the wires and the majority of them are correct. Although I had about 18-19 pin locations on the 411 pcm that are missing wires.


THESE NEXT QUESTIONS ARE FROM THE SECOND HALF OF THE SPREADSHEET, CHECKING MY WORK.

Question #12
C1-32 on the 411pcm already has a light green wire from C2-21 on the 96-97pcm (MAP signal). The second half of the spreadsheet says it should "now" be a black/white wire (transmission range switch signal A) from the trans harness. Do these two wires have to be spliced together? I wouldn't think so.

Question #13
C1-34 on the 411pcm has no wire there. Should be a white wire. (transmission range switch signal B). Does it come from the trans harness?

Question #14
C1-41 on the 411pcm has no wire there. Should be a black wire. (EGR low reference). Says it should come from Main Splice. Where is the Main Splice?

Question #15
C1-54 on the 411pcm has no wire there. Should be a black wire. (MAP low reference). Main Splice again? Where?

Question #16
C1-58 and C1-59 on the 411pcm may be in the wrong place. The spread sheet on the first half says to put C4-11 from the 96-97pcm into C1-59. Then on the second half of the spreadsheet it says C1-58 should have the purple wire from C4-11. I have no wire in the C1-58 slot. Does this wire need to be spliced and put into both 58 and 59?

Question #17
C1-60 on the 411pcm has no wire there. Should be a black wire. (TPS low reference). Main Splice again? Where?

Question #18
C1-72 on the 411pcm has no wire there. Should be a yellow wire. (transmission range switch signal B). Trans harness? Where?

Question #19
C1-80 on the 411pcm has no wire there. Should be a black wire. (ECT sensor ground). Main Splice again? Where?

Question #20
C2-7 on the 411pcm has no wire there. (EGR valve supply voltage. Does not come from 96-97pcm). Just find any 12v wire to go here?

Question #21
C2-15 on the 411pcm has no wire there. (Generator turn on signal. Not used on the 96-97pcm). Once again, just find any 12v wire to go here?

Question #22
C2-32 on the 411pcm has no wire there, because the first part of the spreadsheet said to put C2-21 on the 96-97pcm in slot C1-32 which is the blue connector instead of the red. (Map sensor signal). Is this a spreadsheet error?

Question #23
C2-35 on the 411pcm has no wire there. Should be a brown wire. (Charge indicator control). It is not specified wire this wire comes from. Where?

Question #24
C2-41 on the 411pcm has a grey wire there. The first part of the spreadsheet listed C1-18 on the 96-97pcm as a grey wire. Now on the second half of the spreadsheet it is saying it should be white. ???

Question #25
C2-62 on the 411pcm has no wire there. Should be a grey wire. (transmission range switch signal C). Trans harness? Where?


Once again I am sorry for all the questions. If anyone could shed some light on these I would be greatful. Jeff this spreadsheet is awesome and I would like to thank you ahead of time for this.

Josh

Aloicious
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:00 am
Location: 96, C1500, LS31, T56, 24x CNP/LS2 coils, Whipple, 411, EFILive, MPFI, ZZ4, Trutrac, 4.88...etc

Post by Aloicious »

That is a nice lookin' sierra there Silent Thunder. let me look over my spreadsheet and see if I can help out with any of those questions. OrangeSS might be able to help out some as well, he swapped the the 411 before I did in a '96 and got the AC issues fixed.

I think the '96 year was just kinda screwy. the first year of OBDII, and I'm guessing GM made several changes durring the production year to little things like wiring issues (like that 5th plug that is just a jumper wire)...

Aloicious
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:00 am
Location: 96, C1500, LS31, T56, 24x CNP/LS2 coils, Whipple, 411, EFILive, MPFI, ZZ4, Trutrac, 4.88...etc

Post by Aloicious »

#1- You should be okay with the tan wire, I can't remember if mine was just tan or not. give it a try.
# 2-you might have a different wiring file than mine, mine states c3-4 (96) --> c1-60 (411)....and C1-80 says not used.
# 3 & 4- C3-7 and c3-8 on the 96 are only for vehicles with a 4L80E tranny, so if you're running a 4L60E like I am, you won't have any wires there.
#5 - I really think you have a different wiring file, mine says C3-14 (96) is not used. so there shouldn't be a wire there.
#6 - C3-18 is a ground, mine was black/white also i fI remember correctly you should be alright.
#7 - again file difference, mine says C3-19 (96) goes to C2-57 (411)
#8 & 9 - my file says C3-30 and C4-7 are not used
#10 - C1-4 (96) on my file says the following : Ignition Feed-Not Used. Tape back into harness or use it to power the Charcoal Canister Vent Valve, if you are using a 98-2000 Canister. "....C4-18(96) should go to C1-19 (411) according to my file.
#11 - yeah the first half of the spreadsheet is organized in order of the 96's wiring, the second half is organized in order of the 411's wiring, they should both be the same, just ordered differently
#12 - C2-21 (96), the MAP signal should go to C2-32, NOT C1-32
#13 - C1-34 is a wire that will run from the trans harness. you will need to splice in a wire at the trans harness (white wire) and run it to C1-34
#14 - My C1-41 says not used. although I have never gotten the EGR to work correctly after the 411 swap. I may have to look into this a little
#15- C1-54 - not used
#16- C4-11 (96) should go to C1-59 (411), the C1-58 (411) is not used.
#17- C1-60 (411) should come from C3-4 (96) (same answer as question #2)
#18- C1-72 is another wire you will have to run up to the PCM from the trans harness (yellow wire)
#19 - C1-80 my file says not used.
#20- C2-7 not used according to what I've read up on, the EGR on later vehicles have 12V supply and ground comming from the PCM, on our trucks, the voltage and ground are hard wired in, so you can just leave them empty....HOWEVER, as I said earlier, I have never got the EGR to work right after the swap, and I'm wondering if this may be the issue. I'm going to try wiring it to the PCM and see if it makes a difference. but in the mean time I have my EGR unplugged and tuned out so it doesn't cause any issues.
#21- the 411 can controll the alternator, but to my knowledge, no one had tried wiring this. just leave any generator things off. c2-15 (411) not used.
#22- spreadsheet typo I'm thinking, see answer to question #12
#23-C2-35(411) is another alternator one, leave it empty.
#24 - mine says its grey in all places, sounds like white is a type-o
#25 - that is another wire you will want to run up to the PCM from the trans harness. there are 4 of them total, all should be on the spreadsheet.

Whew :P, I think I've got carpal-tunnel syndrome now. j/k...seriously though I think you may have an old version on the spreadsheet or an incomplete one or something. PM me your e-mail and I can send you the one I have. its good and explains the trans harness stuff, and is very accurate. the only descrepancies I've found were specific to my truck that I've seen, and possibly other '96s (but there haven't been enough of us that have swapped to be sure)...I posted them in the main mega-thread and also how I solved them (other than the EGR, still working on that one.)

Silent Thunder
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Heartland Texas - '96 GMC Ext. Cab Sierra 411 pcm. - 383 stroker & marine intake, 411.

Post by Silent Thunder »

Aloicious wrote:
#14 - My C1-41 says not used. although I have never gotten the EGR to work correctly after the 411 swap. I may have to look into this a little

#20- C2-7 not used according to what I've read up on, the EGR on later vehicles have 12V supply and ground comming from the PCM, on our trucks, the voltage and ground are hard wired in, so you can just leave them empty....HOWEVER, as I said earlier, I have never got the EGR to work right after the swap, and I'm wondering if this may be the issue. I'm going to try wiring it to the PCM and see if it makes a difference. but in the mean time I have my EGR unplugged and tuned out so it doesn't cause any issues.

Whew :P, I think I've got carpal-tunnel syndrome now. j/k...seriously though I think you may have an old version on the spreadsheet or an incomplete one or something. PM me your e-mail and I can send you the one I have. its good and explains the trans harness stuff, and is very accurate. the only descrepancies I've found were specific to my truck that I've seen, and possibly other '96s (but there haven't been enough of us that have swapped to be sure)...I posted them in the main mega-thread and also how I solved them (other than the EGR, still working on that one.)
Thanks Aloicious,

When I started going through my notes and began typing them all out I was getting cramps in my hands. :/ I thought I updated my spreadsheet once everyone was in agreance on the fact that the '96's were different from the '97's. I'm not to worried about the EGR related things because my new stroker that I've got waiting on the engine stand will not be equipped with one. It will have the marine intake which has no place for it.
I'll take a look at these others when I get home from work tonight.

Josh

I sent you a PM.

5pt7joe
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:57 am
Location: Weslaco,Tx

been reading

Post by 5pt7joe »

hey guys been around reading alot on this forum has alot of great info for my l31 im interested in doing this swap and would like to know how i would go about getting a copy of the Spreadsheet you guys are using.
i have 1996 as well..i dont mean to jack the thread just thought i'd introduce myself of sort before just asking for it...
swap looks good cant wait to try it out on mine.
PM sent as well to Aloicious and Silent Thunder thanks in advance with any help =)

Lextech
Posts: 964
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: Oak Forest Illinois,U.S.A.

Post by Lextech »

Hey Josh,

You must have gotten the very first copy of the 96 file. PM me your E-Mail address and I will send you the newer file.
There are quite a few changes since your file.

Jeff

Aloicious
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:00 am
Location: 96, C1500, LS31, T56, 24x CNP/LS2 coils, Whipple, 411, EFILive, MPFI, ZZ4, Trutrac, 4.88...etc

Re: been reading

Post by Aloicious »

5pt7joe wrote:hey guys been around reading alot on this forum has alot of great info for my l31 im interested in doing this swap and would like to know how i would go about getting a copy of the Spreadsheet you guys are using.
i have 1996 as well..i dont mean to jack the thread just thought i'd introduce myself of sort before just asking for it...
swap looks good cant wait to try it out on mine.
PM sent as well to Aloicious and Silent Thunder thanks in advance with any help =)
Hey man, welcome to the forum. the 411 swap is the best upgrade I've done. I'm too much of a perfectionist to rely on a mail order tune or something I can't adjust myself. I e-mailed you a copy of the file I have. it should work for your 96. if you have questions, feel free to start a thread, lots of knowledgable people on this site..
Silent Thunder wrote:Thanks Aloicious,

When I started going through my notes and began typing them all out I was getting cramps in my hands. I thought I updated my spreadsheet once everyone was in agreance on the fact that the '96's were different from the '97's. I'm not to worried about the EGR related things because my new stroker that I've got waiting on the engine stand will not be equipped with one. It will have the marine intake which has no place for it.
I'll take a look at these others when I get home from work tonight.

Josh

I sent you a PM.
No prob bro. let us know how it turns out. like Lextech said I think you just got ahold of an older wiring file. I e-mailed you a copy of mine. the swap has worked fine for me without the EGR, so it sounds like you've got it planned out. just remember that if you run the 411 before you get that 383 in, you'll need to unplug the EGR and tune it out.

PSWired
Posts: 3526
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Location: Annapolis, MD 1995 GMC Yukon, 6L80e, E85 5.3

Post by PSWired »

To answer the most pressing question in this entire thread:

That twisted pair in the one picture is from the VSS. It's twisted to resist interference from outside sources because its a very weak high frequency signal.

Lextech
Posts: 964
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: Oak Forest Illinois,U.S.A.

Post by Lextech »

Silent Thunder and 5Pt7Joe,

I just sent you the newest file.

As far as the EGR goes. It looks like pin E on the EGR needs to go straight to the 0411. I can't prove it---But that is what it looks like to me. I don't have EGR on my truck. So, I can't check it.

Jeff

Aloicious
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:00 am
Location: 96, C1500, LS31, T56, 24x CNP/LS2 coils, Whipple, 411, EFILive, MPFI, ZZ4, Trutrac, 4.88...etc

Post by Aloicious »

Lextech wrote:Silent Thunder and 5Pt7Joe,

I just sent you the newest file.

As far as the EGR goes. It looks like pin E on the EGR needs to go straight to the 0411. I can't prove it---But that is what it looks like to me. I don't have EGR on my truck. So, I can't check it.

Jeff
I was going to try wiring it all over to the PCM. I think the PCM is missing some signal input and therefore causing the issue if it is still plugged and tuned since the '96's are wired different than the 98+'s. I will try wiring it in this week if I can (finals week). also working on swapping to the 98+ evap system too, I don't believe that has been done yet either, just gotta find the connector for the 98 evap vent valve, and the connector for the fuel tank pressure sensor (which has a different connector than the MAP sensor, already checked), anyone know the part #'s for those connectors? so I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

EDIT- all this EGR wiring is not necissary if you plan on deleting the EGR, just tune it out and unplug, you're good to go.

hquick
Posts: 4672
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:56 pm
Location: Melbourne, Oz-----98 K1500 LT Suburban. RHD, 0411, Whipple, Marine, 4L80E, Trutrac, H/boost,E-Fans

Post by hquick »

Actually Al...someone's done the evap setup. Can't remember who.
Oh...on the 0411's Eric was actually first to do the 96/97.

Aloicious
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:00 am
Location: 96, C1500, LS31, T56, 24x CNP/LS2 coils, Whipple, 411, EFILive, MPFI, ZZ4, Trutrac, 4.88...etc

Post by Aloicious »

hquick wrote:Actually Al...someone's done the evap setup. Can't remember who.
Oh...on the 0411's Eric was actually first to do the 96/97.
yeah, I don't know eric, but I know OrangeSS did the swap before me on a '96, and I'm sure there were others as well.

I've never heard of anyone actually completing the EVAP swap, but thats good, gives me hope there will be minimal issues hehe.

Silent Thunder
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Heartland Texas - '96 GMC Ext. Cab Sierra 411 pcm. - 383 stroker & marine intake, 411.

Post by Silent Thunder »

Aloicious and Lextech,

Thanks for the updated wiring file. I went over it line by line with my old one and found many changes. I didn't have time to work on the truck last night, but hopefully I should be able to tonight.

Josh

Silent Thunder
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Heartland Texas - '96 GMC Ext. Cab Sierra 411 pcm. - 383 stroker & marine intake, 411.

Almost there...

Post by Silent Thunder »

Well I compared notes from the old file that I had and had to back track some of my work. I got the last of the wires from the trans in. Tomorrow I'm going to organize all the wires with some wire loom. I hooked it all up but, ran out of time for tonight. I have a nosey neighbor that likes to chat. He is really nice, but everytime he comes over, whatever I'm working on doesn't get finished that night. Well tonight was the 411 that fell short. Tomorrow I'm going to hook up EFILive to it, and pull the tune that is in the 411 right now (its for the 383) and flash the Express van tune into it.

Question : Will I need to perform a crank relearn on it?

Here are some pics of it all together.

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Image

Image

Josh

Aloicious
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:00 am
Location: 96, C1500, LS31, T56, 24x CNP/LS2 coils, Whipple, 411, EFILive, MPFI, ZZ4, Trutrac, 4.88...etc

Post by Aloicious »

nice. yeah, you'll want to do a crank relearn on it.

Lextech
Posts: 964
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: Oak Forest Illinois,U.S.A.

Post by Lextech »

Looks good. You need to have the 4 Trans Range Switch wires hooked up to do the Crank relearn. The relearn only takes a few seconds
with EFILive, it is very easy.

Jeff

PS: Time to change you description in your signature!

stroker97k1500
Posts: 2702
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:13 pm
Location: Macon Ga., 94Toyota truck with LSX stuff

Post by stroker97k1500 »

Great Job Man!!!!!
U might need to get a fan to blow out the exhaust from the garage since or pull it outside since the crank re-learn has to see the engine temp hot and a few other conditions before you can do the relearn.
Robby

Silent Thunder
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Heartland Texas - '96 GMC Ext. Cab Sierra 411 pcm. - 383 stroker & marine intake, 411.

I'm so freaking excited!!!!!!!!!

Post by Silent Thunder »

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I hooked up EFILive to it and within 5-10min I was done. I had a few trouble codes pop up on the initial startup. Once I cleared them and did the crank relearn. They haven't come back up yet. I was hoping to go out for a drive tonight but a pretty intense thunderstorm just rolled in here and its late. So I guess tomorrow I'll go out for a drive.

Benefits from the 411 that I can tell already (just 5-10min of playing with the throttle), smoother idle and faster throttle response. When I heard everyone talking about how smooth the idle is, I just couldn't imagine anything smoother than it already was. I can't wait to see how it idles with the marine intake on the 383. Although the cam that is in the stroker may not be very smooth during idle. I'd rather have a smooth/rough idle from a cam than just crappy factory settings from the "black box pcm".

Aloicious, I remembered to unhook the EGR and disabled it with EFILive.

If anyone is out there contemplating this swap, DO IT !!! I was on the fence when this swap started being popular, but now that I have tasted the "greener grass on the other side of the fence," :P I would be very very suprised to see anyone perform this swap and NOT be satisfied.


Josh

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