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Power options for non-smog L31
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Post Power options for non-smog L31 
This is for my '98 K1500 offroad truck. It's currently stock with the exception of open air filter and Hypertech. The truck feels heavy and is not competitive with what's now being produced. Plus its heavier than most K1500s.

My budget is ~$1000 and wonder if I can save money by avoiding the expensive CARB labeled requirements. My exhaust system needs to be replaced and haven't found affordable long tubes (if there are some please advise).

I was looking at new intake manifolds but I don't know what I'll be left with regarding throttle body and the rest of the fuel delivery. I'm waiting to hear back from a tuner regarding gains. If you have experience here I'm all ears.

I appreciate all your input, I've put this part of the build off for some time.

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Anyone running this?

http://www.wynjammer.com/ALM1115/GM_Full_Size_Vortec.html

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That looks like a pretty good price to me that is if the tuning was done properly and on an exact setup like you have.
if you do get this setup DONOT try to use your hypertech on top of the new ecm's program. you can reload the stock settings in your old ecm and re-sell the hypertech to someone else to re-coup some money.
Robby

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I understand the Hypertech issue. For me it basically served to recalibrate for larger tires and firm up the shift points.

After reading a great deal of the stickied marine intake thread I'm left wondering if it's right for me. I know a big deal about the marine setup is it looks smog legal, right? Is there a better option for me since smog isn't an issue?

I know dyno findings will vary with which injectors were used. Has anyone compiled a list of what has been done?

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Cracker wrote:
I understand the Hypertech issue. For me it basically served to recalibrate for larger tires and firm up the shift points.

After reading a great deal of the stickied marine intake thread I'm left wondering if it's right for me. I know a big deal about the marine setup is it looks smog legal, right? Is there a better option for me since smog isn't an issue?

I know dyno findings will vary with which injectors were used. Has anyone compiled a list of what has been done?


A kist of what has been done? Wga=hat do you mean? Done to what??

peace
Hog

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With the marine intake I'll have many options with regard to injectors. So I'm trying to determine what's best for me and ALL the parts I'll need. For me to best plan which route I should take I'd like to base my decision on dyno results if they're available. I know many guys that frequent this site have spent tons of money on their systems and some have spent time on the dyno. I'd like to base my research on real objective data.

Am I right about the reason the marine intake is popular? Would this be a good route for me considering all my options.

Thanks for responding.

I'm also curious about the 0411 and my '98 black box. I've read that I can program with EFIlive. Would I have any benefit of switching to a 0411? Is the only benefit in my case the raised rev limiter?

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the 0411 really does make the engine run better and smoother. I was very impressed with it.
If you have the up to date file it shouldn't take to long to do it b/w 1.5-5 hrs for the swap topps, less if you study pinouts before you do it.
I would recommend it!!!!!!
Jeff "LexTech" started this swap it is under a sticky if you have the time to read the comments about it. I couldn't believe how much better the motor ran especially at idle with the new 0411 ecm.
Robby

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I don't understand this thread. You want to keep it around 1k for mods and post a link to a supercharger. Plus you are thinking of the Marine intake. The intake will gain you top end(but you say it is for offroad so don't you want low end power?). Why not spend that money on other mods first since you are not out flowing the stock injectors. Do a search there are a few people on here pushing around 400hp on the stock intake.

Exhaust, Cam, Ecu tuning. Right there is 1k. Just the marine intake is going to take you over your budget. You will have to buy the intake 5-700, additional parts to install 3-400, injectors 3-400, and finally the tune. 2-300 mail order or 700 for EFI live.

There are long tubes available http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46834&highlight=headers#46834. Along with a nice exhaust and some custom tuning to your ECU should get you to your goals.

Start pushing the 4L60E and 10 bolt rear and multiply your budget infinitely. Since you are talking offroad the 10 bolt will not last very long and you will need a 14 bolt.

[/url]

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There are a lot of smart guys on here.............myself included Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad You just can't get much for $1000 these days.
I'm finding out this cold harsh reality myself. Set up a poll on here and see how much money these guys have spent
on their trucks.............if they still keep track anymore. I bet guys like James and Lextech just look at what they want
for their truck and what's in the bank...........if their kids are fed.......if their wife is happy......buy it !!!


Audios
-Justin

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L31Sleeper wrote:
and what's in the bank...........if their kids are fed.......if their wife is happy......buy it !!!


Audios
-Justin


Heh heh, this is why I'm so slow to move... two teens, yeesh...

On my suggestions, since you are speaking of an offroader but don't specify exactly what you do offroad, I'm going to assume that you do rock crawling and the like. There are better things to do, but not in your budget.

To keep it under a grand your best options would be a 4x4 roller cam from Comp for about 200 bucks. You have a roller in there now and you can reuse old rollers, so you just need the cam. Since you are doing the 4x4 I'd not go wild with it, maybe a powerband between 1000 to 5000RPM.

Long tube headers if you can find them, a better flowing muffler like (my own preference) a Dynomax Super Turbo (50 bucks) or Walker Quiet Flow (100 bucks). I'd look at ceramics

I always recommend electric fans to everyone, 100 to 500 depending on how handy you are. In your case, a setup like I put on my 96 Tahoe would be best, which was two Permacool 2950CFM fans. Between the two they pulled 5900CFM, and can do this at idle if necessary. You will need to make a custom shroud to use these to set the fans off the radiator a bit so you can get airflow across the whole radiator AND make sure the fans can only pull air through the radiator and not just beat up air inside the engine bay. If you go with the 411 PCM then you can use it to run them, or on a budget you can use a simple water jacket thermal switch to turn them on and off, using a relay to control the power. You'll most likely also need a better alternator. The electrics will free up quite a bit of robbed HP during higher RPM operation, and will improve MPG.

Hope all this helps.

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tahoe99 wrote:
I don't understand this thread. You want to keep it around 1k for mods and post a link to a supercharger. Plus you are thinking of the Marine intake. The intake will gain you top end(but you say it is for offroad so don't you want low end power?). Why not spend that money on other mods first since you are not out flowing the stock injectors. Do a search there are a few people on here pushing around 400hp on the stock intake.

Exhaust, Cam, Ecu tuning. Right there is 1k. Just the marine intake is going to take you over your budget. You will have to buy the intake 5-700, additional parts to install 3-400, injectors 3-400, and finally the tune. 2-300 mail order or 700 for EFI live.

There are long tubes available http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46834&highlight=headers#46834. Along with a nice exhaust and some custom tuning to your ECU should get you to your goals.

Start pushing the 4L60E and 10 bolt rear and multiply your budget infinitely. Since you are talking offroad the 10 bolt will not last very long and you will need a 14 bolt.

[/url]


$1000 was an initial, arbitrary limit I set. I posted the S/C because I, nor any of my motorhead friends, have heard of it and know nothing of their reputation if they even have one. I know I can nickel and dime my engine up to $2500 and don't know what my power outcome will be. If I buy one part for the same price, I could very well have a better $/HP value.

I was initially only considering Cam, exhaust and I've only begun researching true tuning. This is probably all I need considering the trucks use. I know my truck is going to be gaining weight and as of now, and it already feels sluggish compared to my newer daily drivers. I came to this site and read about the marine manifold and became intrigued.

Thanks for posting the prices, I didn't know EFI live was that costly.

My 60E hasn't skipped a beat (knock on wood) but I'm not putting that much power through it and its retired from towing. I already have a 14FF so no worries there.


Speeder wrote:

On my suggestions, since you are speaking of an offroader but don't specify exactly what you do offroad, I'm going to assume that you do rock crawling and the like. There are better things to do, but not in your budget.

To keep it under a grand your best options would be a 4x4 roller cam from Comp for about 200 bucks. You have a roller in there now and you can reuse old rollers, so you just need the cam. Since you are doing the 4x4 I'd not go wild with it, maybe a powerband between 1000 to 5000RPM.

Long tube headers if you can find them, a better flowing muffler like (my own preference) a Dynomax Super Turbo (50 bucks) or Walker Quiet Flow (100 bucks). I'd look at ceramics

I always recommend electric fans to everyone, 100 to 500 depending on how handy you are. In your case, a setup like I put on my 96 Tahoe would be best, which was two Permacool 2950CFM fans. Between the two they pulled 5900CFM, and can do this at idle if necessary. You will need to make a custom shroud to use these to set the fans off the radiator a bit so you can get airflow across the whole radiator AND make sure the fans can only pull air through the radiator and not just beat up air inside the engine bay. If you go with the 411 PCM then you can use it to run them, or on a budget you can use a simple water jacket thermal switch to turn them on and off, using a relay to control the power. You'll most likely also need a better alternator. The electrics will free up quite a bit of robbed HP during higher RPM operation, and will improve MPG.

Hope all this helps.


The truck will be a rock crawler. I will be continuing with higher speed stuff while I live in the desert and I'll go to the dunes occasionally.

Can you recommend a specific cam? I've visited Summit and I don't fully understand the specs and don't know what's best for me.

As for fans I'm pretty restricted up front with my 24" tapered front end. I considered Taurus fans before the taper but I'm putting it off until I link the rear as I may relocate the radiator.


With regard to exhaust, what are my options for cats? I assume I'll need the forward 2 sensors so the ECM can have some sort of feedback. Then will I'll be free to delete the rear ones? I'd like to do long tubes into a single pipe, one cat, one muffler. Can I do that with the O2 sensors or will I need to keep both sensors and have two separate cats like stock?

Do you guys have a proven ECM programmer to recommend?

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Post Tapered front end? 
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24" tapered front end


Hey Cracker, do you have any pics of your truck? I'm intrigued by everything off-road and your mention of a tapered front end has me wanting to see what your truck looks like.

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While it was pretty.



Now.



A lot went on between those two pictures.

Here's more.

http://www.norcalbigdawgs.net/Gallery/Cracker

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Tahoe99- Can you tell me why Summit doesn't list your Hooker headers as a fit for the '97-up?

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&Ntt=2462%2D1HKR&x=35&y=4&N=+115&searchinresults=false

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Wow neat. Tapered front end, and it has the "factory" grill in it. I've not seen anything like that before. Any details on how that grill went together?

Nice thing about the fans I suggest, they are 14 inch in diameter, about 3 inches tall yet pull tons of air. And, having 2 of them means a fan failure does not mean dead on the road. If you did that truck yourself then you definitely have the skills needed to throw together a custom shroud to fit them in along with the imagination to make it work. Put them in staggered and perhaps angled away from the engine in the center and you can likely get both in without any problems. Removing the factory clutch fan setup makes for a lot of room.

Camshaft recommendation for a rock crawler, hmm... I'm more of a high speed cruise guy, but looking at the cam specs for Comp Cam's catalog I'd look at:

XTREME 4X4™ Hyd. Roller Camshafts (EXCEPT LT1 & LT4) 1987-98, 305-350 Engines O.E. Hyd. Roller Cams

HYDRAULIC ROLLER-Strong torque, good
mileage, for stock to mildly modified engines.

RPM range 1000 to 5000
part number 08-409-8
Grind number X4258HR

Advertised duration
Intake Exhaust
258 262

Duration @.050
Intake Exhaust
206 210

Valve lift
Intake Exhaust
.458 .458

Lobe separation angle 111°

A second one to look at:

HYDRAULIC ROLLER-Good mid-range
power, good with 3.23-3.73 gear.

RPM range 1200 to 5200
Part number 08-411-8
Grind number X4260HR

Advertised duration
Intake Exhaust
260 264

Duration @.050
Intake Exhaust
210 214

Valve lift
Intake Exhaust
.474 .474

Lobe separation angle 111°


I'm sure others will chime in as well. I've preferred Comp for years, and these look like the best cams per the catalog for your intended use, to me. If you are doing desert racing or have other driveline mods not listed here then these may not be the best suggestions.

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Cracker wrote:
Tahoe99- Can you tell me why Summit doesn't list your Hooker headers as a fit for the '97-up?

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&Ntt=2462%2D1HKR&x=35&y=4&N=+115&searchinresults=false

Because they are for the 88-95 tbi™ engines. The Vortec 96-99 trucks have an EGR fitting that the tbi™ engines dont use.
I disabled EGR and am using teh same headers on my 1997 Vortec 350 truck.


peace
Hog

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And if you want to keep the price low you can opt for the painted headers. They go for around 210.00

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Thanks for the Cam recommendation. I'll look into those.

Ceramic is better because of heat dispersal right?


As for my grille, 12" was removed from each side and then fiberglassed back together. It's glued to small brackets and mounted to the radiator support. A buddy of mine removed 28" total on his (while I did 24). The extra 2" makes the hassle much greater as you have to then cut into the radiator support, move the computer etc. Nightmare. He also wasn't able to keep his headlights which he didn't consider doing anyway. I wanted them a. to be different than him. and b. I'm still street legal.

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Yep, heat dispersal is the main reason to go with ceramics. Second reason, as an offroader I imagine you get the whole underside in the mud and the crud, which would promote rust.

Thanks for the info on the grill. If you have any pics of the job when you modded it I'd love to see them. Got my mind churning on the possibilities now.

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I'll get pics up as soon as my club's gallery gets back online. The whole site is down.

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