any way to sync distributor in new engine without scan tool?

Performance modifications, tips & tricks

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350SS
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Location: Las Vegas, NV

any way to sync distributor in new engine without scan tool?

Post by 350SS »

I know this has been covered, but every post that I see references using a scan tool to check the cam sensor offset angle. I don't have access to a scan tool unfortunately. I have the procedure on replacing the distributor from the GM service manual, but I can't seem to get things to work without throwing a P0300 code. Does anyone have any tips on how to do this without a scan tool? When my crank balancer is lined up with zero deg on the timing tab, where do I need my rotor to be pointing? (I know at the #1 cylinder tower, but are there any reference marks on the distributor base that it should line up with perfectly?) This is the one thing that the instructions in the GM service manual are somewhat vague on. Thanks guys...once I get this sorted out and get things tidyed up, I've got some cool stuff to post :evil:

Max

Stealth97
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Post by Stealth97 »

Something about a number 8 and a triangle.

I read that somewhere else.

350SS
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Post by 350SS »

Helpful as usual.

Stealth97
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 12:00 am
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Post by Stealth97 »

350SS wrote:Helpful as usual.
Sorry I'm laughing over here. Just kidding man.

My P.O.S. throws a P1345 code. I thought that was the one where its not lined up properly.

P0300 is a misfire code right?

Is your cap bad? rotor?

350SS
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 8:47 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Post by 350SS »

It is a misfire code, I got it mixed up with p0341 which is for the cam sensor...hmmmmmm guess I've got some things to check out....I'll post up on this later.

350SS
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Post by 350SS »

I guess you redeemed yourself (somewhat) on this one Eric.

Stealth97
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Post by Stealth97 »

350SS wrote:I guess you redeemed yourself (somewhat) on this one Eric.
Sorry for jerking your chain at first.

Friends?

350SS
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Post by 350SS »

I'll think about it.

julianmwallace
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Location: Statesboro, GA - '96 C1500 RCSS: Radixed 6.0 LQ4, 1.75" LTs, 411 pcm, 4L60E, Eaton Posi

Post by julianmwallace »

I'm getting the same misfire code after my distributer replacement. The truck runs good, idles good, and all of the spark plugs are burning good, so I didn't worry about it. Would be good to find out whats causing it though.

playtoy_18
Posts: 1907
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Location: oklahoma

re

Post by playtoy_18 »

Check your cap carefully for crack's and make sure the brass node at the top is nice and clean,take a pencil eraser to it if you need to clean it.
It's just a random misfire code?Anything else happening or just the code?
Don't forget to check your dist gear also.
Should be able to line the #1 cylinder at TDC and put the rotor bug on #1 cylinder and drop it in...should be...
If your crank sensor is loose that might cause a random misfire code also.

Stealth97
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Post by Stealth97 »

350SS, what manifold are you running?

I was getting some P0300 codes I think (5 years ago, so cant remember) back when I was on the old poppets. GM top engine cleaner helped a lot.

Use EFI Live or a GM Tech II and you can read all of the cylinder misfire data. In one cylinder I had 3 misfires in the total history, in another I had 7, in another I had like 2500. You can pinpoint it down to the exact cylinder.

If you use EFI Live it also is able to read the freeze frame PCM history for when it sets the code. There is much more to the code than just the code. The PCM stores O2 sensor, TP sensor, MAP, MAF, etc. etc. for you when the error triggers.

I got my truck to run a lot better after top engine cleaner, but within 500 miles it popped back up again. Odd. It ended up being the distributor cap and rotor. Been through a few of those already. Just about ready for another so I'm waiting for the truck to start running funky again.

Eric

P.S. My guess is a plug wire is not seated all the way. Pull all of them off and reseat them. Those things SUCK. I never get them on right, especially the spark plug end.

350SS
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Post by 350SS »

Brand new GM distributor, cap, rotor, and crank sensor. I reused my Taylor wires, might be a problem but I'd hope not they're not too old. Brand new plugs that came with my crate motor from GM. I'm running a new MPFI manifold :evil: ...will post the details of that soon as I can get this shit worked out and some wiring cleaned up. I need to check my EGR valve also, it was one that I hadn't used before, maybe its a piece of crap. I'l check that the plug wires are seated good. If that doensn't work I have a new set of wires and I'll replace them and see if it clears up, I was hoping to save them for a new project but oh well.

If you unplug an EGR valve, does it stay closed or open?

350SS
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Post by 350SS »

I checked the freeze frame data, and it didn't seem very helpful but I'll look again.

julianmwallace
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: Statesboro, GA - '96 C1500 RCSS: Radixed 6.0 LQ4, 1.75" LTs, 411 pcm, 4L60E, Eaton Posi

Post by julianmwallace »

Well, I guess I'll throw my problems in this thread too instead of starting a new one. Sorry about it being quite long.

I'm getting the same code as him, and I have a brand new Billetech. I'm still using the poppets(not for long :D), and get the code every day, within 1 hour of driving, usually much sooner.
I'm also pulling two other codes, one for "Cylinder #4 Misfire", and another for "Manufacture Controlled Ignition or Misfire", I forgot what the code numbers were. When I replaced my busted distributer, I got cyl.#1 at TDC w/ the timing mark lined up and set rotor to cyl.#1. My plug wires are fairly new 8.5s and are well seated. I used a new NAPA Gold cap instead of the Accel cap, the NAPA looked like the brass contacts were better, and the housing seemed stronger. CPS plug is plugged in good and the wires feel good.

I just got HPTuners and used the scan tool once, but I'm not familiar with it yet to figure out the problem. Plus, I keep forgetting it at my house, and with my schedule, that leaves my with pretty much no time for playing with it when I get home. Calculus II, Cal based Physics, Macroeconomics, and English Composition keep me pretty busy for the rest of the night.

Anybody know whats up with this?:
I'm still having the exact same problems as before I went to replace the cap and broke the stock distributer. It will skip or sputter every once in a while, but otherwise it runs very smooth and idles good. Oh, I almost forgot, about once a week it will act like it has chronic misfiring for about 2-5min. It idles good when its doing it, but bogs amd spits with part throttle, especially in the 1400-2400 range. At 7/8-WOT it will jump hard and run good, just not at crusing speeds. It doesn't matter if its in warm-up mode or not, so I don't think it has to do with the MAF sensor. With a DVOM I have checked the IAT, MAP,and TPS sensors, and checked the coil signal plug(and coil wire), and the new CP sensor. I think about the only thing I havn't checked are the O2 sensors, and I only have the front 2 still on, the rear emisions ones have O2 simulators instead. I thought the front O2 sensors were still referenced during warm-up mode, idle, and WOT, so thats why I ruled them out.

The rear O2 simulators aren't throwing a emmisions code and they shouldn't be referenced for the A/F, but don't they send the signal to the pcm that's used for control of EGR? I havn't blocked-off the EGR valve yet, so I don't know if thats causing part of the problem. About once every couple of days I will get 2 codes for the EGR system. I'll try to find their # and description.
Could this be a possible cause of EGR codes and a long shot for my misfire problems?:
I think the O2 simulators I'm using are made for replacing front O2 sensors, so they should be sending a signal that is computed as a 14.7:1 A/F right? I'm not sure if they even make O2 simulators just for the rear. Since I'm using them on the after cat sensors(I have no catylic converters), are the 14.7:1 simulators not sending a signal with high enough oxygen count? Is having the same oxygen count as a straight 14.7:1 A/F not enough for after the catylic converters? I didn't think the stock '96 cats would have been efficient enough to create 14.7 parts of oxygen to 1 part of everything else. If they weren't that efficient, then I shouldn't have a problem with the EGR. If they were that efficient and converted over a lot more, then the rear O2 sensors need to be reading much higher than the signal from my O2 simulators.

So, in conclusion :D : Anyone have some advise for helping me diagnose my problem? Anyone know of some sensors, or certian signals that wouldn't effect idle and WOT? Anyone know about the EGR/rear O2 problems?

I migh have to start replacing all the old sensors, starting with the O2 sensors. :roll:

Hog
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Post by Hog »

The rear O2 sensors only tell the PCm if the cats are their and functioning. The rears are where you you would run O2 sims. You cannot run in closed loop without front O2 sensors.

the front O2's are references in closed loop, idling accelerating, decelerating, cruising. At WOT in PE mode, teh sensors will lock at a voltage, but his info isnt used by the PCM in the older PCM's.

They are NOT referenced in open loop, PE mode (WOT).

There is no such O2 simulator for the front O2 sensors, just the rears.

You are talking about a timing mark on the Vortec engines that doesnt exist, there isnt timing pointer either.

Ideally gas burns at 14.7 parts of air for every 1 part of gasoline, that is NOT the a/f ratio that come out of the exhaust. the O2 sims are simply supplying teh PCM with a certain voltage to truicvk teh PCm into thinking that the cats are there and functioning, as you said the rear O2's have no effect on fueling.


I did have misfiring due to a worn distributer gear on cyls 3,4,5???

I would scrap any non stock GM wires and go back to OEm PAckard wires. They are by far superior. These aftermarket companies DO NOT have to design their wires to last 100,000miles like GM asks of PAckard.

If you have 1 single missfiring cylinder, I would swap some wires around and see if teh missfire follows. I just went through this on my 4.6 Northstar engine. I t was a wire that was misfiring on cyl 5 and when I swapped the wire with #7 cyl, the mis moved to cyl 7. $31 for a single GM OEM Packard 8mm wire.

Could also be a poppet as well. I erally doubt an O2 sensor could cause a cyl. #4 missfire without any other symptoms.

peace
Hog

Stealth97
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Post by Stealth97 »

I've heard the same thing Hog mentioned, that anything but OEM wires are crap. Performance wires are really UNperformance. Total CRAP.

Maybe the Taylors are good, but I've never seen it...

playtoy_18
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Location: oklahoma

re

Post by playtoy_18 »

I love my Taylor's,I've also had the MSD custom fit's on my Honda and they were great..never could figure out why they were the same price as the truck wire's when they are giving me 4 less though...

Malfunctioning EGR will give you misfire's,I would explore that route and make sure it's all groovy there Julian.
And the EGR should move to closed position when you shut off the truck.

julianmwallace
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: Statesboro, GA - '96 C1500 RCSS: Radixed 6.0 LQ4, 1.75" LTs, 411 pcm, 4L60E, Eaton Posi

Post by julianmwallace »

I didn't think about switching the plug wires around. I'll try it.
I am looking at the timing marks and timing pointer. After I cracked a piston, I rebuilt the engine(5 weeks after I bough the truck!), I lost the harmonic balancer somehow and got a proform 6 3/4" balancer that has timing marks, then I stole the chrome timing pointer that was on my dad's old '91 5.7 hy. roller engine that's sitting in our shop.
I may switch back to GM wires, or try some Taylor Customs.
Any other ideas?
Last edited by julianmwallace on Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

playtoy_18
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: oklahoma

re

Post by playtoy_18 »

Check the voltage's on the 02 sim's,a buddy of mine had a pair go bad he said.Also,I would check out your IAC and IAT on a scanner.Check for maybe a flat spot in the TPS?

With the balancer problem's you had I would check the crank sensor and make sure it isn't loose or something.You can try to stick something in there on it and give it a good tap while it's running,if it die's then the sensor is bad.Could be a bad connection also.

julianmwallace
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: Statesboro, GA - '96 C1500 RCSS: Radixed 6.0 LQ4, 1.75" LTs, 411 pcm, 4L60E, Eaton Posi

Post by julianmwallace »

I'll check the O2 sims to see if it helps the EGR problems.

I didn't have any harmonic balancer problems, I just lost it when I had the motor pulled down. I still havn't found it. The engine ran great for about 10 months after the rebuild, 9 of which was with the Whipple @ 6psi boost. I'll play with the crank sensor, but I doubt it has anything to do with it since there were no balancer problems. The proform balancer is a direct replacement, it just has timing marks made on it. You can put timing tape on your stock one and do the same thing.

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