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***500+HP/TQ 383 stroker project ***
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Post ***500+HP/TQ 383 stroker project *** 
I have been looking at dropping in a 383stroker (475-515 hp/480-525#Tq), into a 99 Tahoe, but would like to have all areas covered (or at least understood) before we start the project. Confused

I was wondering... I seem to see the marine intake used exclusively. I was curious as to why. There are other intake manifolds with fuel rails and injector ports (Accel, Holley, Edelbrock, etc). Why are THEY not used? In using one of these OTHER systems, would any functionality be lost, or is there something that couldn't be used/adapted to the new intake... or is the marine manifold just that good of a performer? If the injector wires are spliced to new injector connectors (Bosch for example), and the fuel hoses are adapted to the new intake, what else would need to be adapted/remounted? If things have to be adapted anyway on the marine intake, how much more work (if any) would be needed to use the OTHER intake manifold?

For example:
the #400-VM from CFM-tech
the Accel MPI intake and rails part#77142
the Holley StealthRam system
the edelbrocks MPI manifold and rails
or the L92 intake (???)

Could you enlighten me please?
email or call:
cleonlake@hotmail.com
512-848-7302 CST

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Post ***500+HP/TQ 383 stroker project *** 
this project is not set in stone, so if there is an alternate route please let me know.

I will be using this truck as a daily driver, so I didn't want a crazy 'lope that sounds like the engine is going to die any minute (it attracts way too much unwanted attention), or something I needed to fill up on every street corner (excessive gas hog). I am looking for the ultimate sleeper. I don't ever plan on taking it to the track, except maybe to put a smile on the faces of those who contributed to the project, to video it.

Something with some serious punch, without even trying. If you know what I mean. Smile

Thank you for imparting your knowledge.

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Post re 
I don't have time at this moment to explain everything,but do a search on this forum.
Several of us are running custom manifold's and injector setup's.I'm in the process of using the holley 9901-107 mani from the commander 950 system,a few other's use the ramjet and still a few more use modified carb intake's...

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You arent limited to the heavy Marine manifold. It just appears stock like OEM would. For us Cali smog Nazi gurus, its more of a must.

You can use anything you want, even custom sheet metal as long a smog is not a concern.

I think I'm going to go with the ZZ4 cam from GMPP in my block.

What cam are you going to run?

I'm going to try to swap my marine manifold for a #400-VM from Cfm-tech soon.

I've sort of have 9 projects currently going on the truck (no, really) and I work full time and then some to pay for my toys. Not sure when I'll get to the cfm-tech but I surely hope it is soon (maybe April when I'm doing all my dynoing/tuning/cam swap). I'm hoping it bolts right in place of the marine and saves me 50 lbs. to boot. I'll let ya know.

Eric

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L92 intake is for a LSx engine not a Gen 1. So, that will not work. I have the stealthram and if you want idle to 2000 rpm torque then its not the intake for you even with a 383.

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Post ***383 Stroker*** 
The engines I have been looking at are listed below: (which do you think would be the best for a heavy truck?)

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/frame.html?/ChevySmallBlockV8s/ZZ383-500.html
http://www.amerspeed.com/dynotestednew.htm
http://www.enginefactory.com/chevy_5.htm
http://chevystreetperformance.com/383_420drop.htm
http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/specs/383_500hp.html
http://www.golenengineservice.com/html/chevy_carbureted.htm (they have been the most knowledgeable up till now)


I was thinking of using that same intake from CFM-tech as well. If I splice in new injectors (Cool on the existing wiring harness/ECU, install the CFM-tech intake, put the injectors into the intake, cut the fuel hoses and adapt them to the new fuel rails, bolt on the throttle body....what else needs to be done?


Obviously I have some cash set aside to do this, it's just I don't want to make a stupid mistake...you know?

Thank you for your impartation of knowledge.
cleonlake@hotmail.com
512-848-7302

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Post ***500+HP/TQ 383 stroker project *** 
SO which intake offers the best low end torque if the stealth ram isn't it? Anyone?

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Post ***500+HP/TQ 383 stroker project *** 
There isn't a need to stick to the vortec heads right? only if I wanted to use the vortec intake manifold correct?
If it is not necessary (accessory, computer, or connection wise) I would be looking for heads which would provide more of what I am looking for. Torque/power (suggestions are welcome)

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Full size GM trucks are heavy vehicles. Torque is king. The L31 marine intake manifold has a clear linage to the OEM L30/L31 truck intake manifold, and is an improvement in many ways. Some of the most obvious performance improvements are the external fuel injectors, the flat internal floor, and slightly larger runners.

For those that like the way the OEM L31 manifold idles, desire to retain the OEM appearance and most/all emission reduction function, this is the manifold of choice.

If you want to push the motor power band up at the sacrifice of torque (and do not need to pass any visual inspections), other options abound. Many here have done so with good results.

It all depends on what you want and need.

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Post Re: ***383 Stroker*** 
cleonlake wrote:
The engines I have been looking at are listed below: (which do you think would be the best for a heavy truck?)

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/frame.html?/ChevySmallBlockV8s/ZZ383-500.html
http://www.amerspeed.com/dynotestednew.htm
http://www.enginefactory.com/chevy_5.htm
http://chevystreetperformance.com/383_420drop.htm
http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/specs/383_500hp.html
http://www.golenengineservice.com/html/chevy_carbureted.htm (they have been the most knowledgeable up till now)


I was thinking of using that same intake from CFM-tech as well. If I splice in new injectors (Cool on the existing wiring harness/ECU, install the CFM-tech intake, put the injectors into the intake, cut the fuel hoses and adapt them to the new fuel rails, bolt on the throttle body....what else needs to be done?


Obviously I have some cash set aside to do this, it's just I don't want to make a stupid mistake...you know?

Thank you for your impartation of knowledge.
cleonlake@hotmail.com
512-848-7302

Personally, I would go with the Sallee-Chevrolet 383. But the cam is a little big for a DD so you might want to change it out and go down to a 224/230 esp for a Tahoe to keep the torque in it.

I'm not real fimiliar with the Accel unit but if its a dual plane system, then it will have better low end torque than the Stealthram. The StealthRam is basically for 2500-6500. Not good for idle-2000 unless you have a converter and you don't mind it.

My 383 has plenty of torque with the StealthRam but I also went with a 218/224 and I am in a Reg. cab truck where you are in a Tahoe....big difference in weight and torque means everything. When I setup to my next cam, 230/236, I doubt I have as good low end power as I have now.

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Post ***500+HP/TQ 383 stroker project *** 
The most we have regarding emissions is the tail pipe sniffer. Visual isn't important here as long as she runs clean at ??? (2000rpm I think) something like that.

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Post Re: ***500+HP/TQ 383 stroker project *** 
cleonlake wrote:
The most we have regarding emissions is the tail pipe sniffer. Visual isn't important here as long as she runs clean at ??? (2000rpm I think) something like that.

StealthRam doesn't run an EGR either.

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Post ***500+HP/TQ 383 stroker project *** 
OK...so the stealth ram isn't the way to go. Laughing

Can the Vorteck heads be made to flow as well as the Dart, E-tec, etc heads?

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Nobody has any clear information on the iron Vortec heads. I've been digging and all I come up with is a lot of conflicting information.

You decide for yourself:

1) There are two casting numbers. Supposedly one is with hardened exhaust seats and is for HD engines. I guess I have this in my truck then cuz I've got a HD 4 bolt engine. They say the HD hardened exhaust seat heads flow worse on exhaust than the regular non hardened heads found on 1500 trucks with 2 bolt main motors (my original engine my father should have in storage).

2) They say the intake port flow is excellent on iron Vortec heads in comparison to any previous generation SBC head, even the reverred 187x casting numbers I had 6 sets of in my garage at one time.

3) They say the exhaust is what really needs the work on the iron Vortecs. Supposedly the E-tecs and others fix this.

4) You can get GMPP Aluminum fastburn heads straight from GM. The MAJOR difference between these and the iron Vortecs is the exhaust flange shape and size. The exhaust outlet is a D shaped port turned 90 degrees with the flat of the D on the bottom facing downward. You cannot use standard headers/manifolds, etc. Requires large collector headers or D port headers.



Use intake manifold P/N 12496820, P/N 12366573, 12496822, or 10051103 with the Fast Burn cylinder head. Use intake manifold gasket P/N 12529094 and eight attaching bolts P/N 12550027. Use Fel-Pro exhaust gasket P/N 1470 for these Fast Burn heads (some trimming may be required for your application. This head includes intake valves P/N 12555331, exhaust valves P/N 12551313, valve spring cap P/N 10212808, and valve springs P/N 12551483.

I think for a budget build-up that performs well and to your expectations, I'd go with a nice combination like GMPP 383 partial engine assembly (forged). Fastburn heads. Hooker Pro Competition headers or equal to fit the D-port heads and slap in an LT4 hotcam. Thing should RIP!. Best thing about it, all GM stuff. Engine and valvetrain should have a 12mo 12,000 mile warranty. Have Gilbert Chevys performance shop put it together and they will warranty it for you also as a complete assembly I believe. You can purchase more warranty I think from them also on the engine. I bought an engine from Sallee Chevrolet (their previous name) and really enjoyed talking to their men on the phone. They are a performance hot rod shop located AT a dealer.

I might just do this combination and test it for the forum. Looks to be a pretty stout setup for cheap!!

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Prices for the above that I can find:

383 partial engine p/n 12499106 $3,350 from Gilbert Chevy

Hot Cam Kit (LT4) p/n 12480002 $602.50 from Gilbert Chevy. $560 from SummitRacing $540 from pace performance, etc. etc. etc.
This off-highway camshaft kit has the major valve train component to convert production LT1 engine for showroom stock racing, or hop up your small block Chevrolet V8 that was originally equipped with a roller tappet camshaft. The 1.6 roller rockers, light weight valve spring caps, special designed valve springs and hot camshaft offers a significant gain in horsepower at a reasonable price. This kit includes the following items: one camshaft P/N 24502586, 16 roller rocker arms kit P/N 12370839, 16 valve springs P/N 12551483, 16 valve caps P/N 10212808, 16 valve keys P/N 24503856, 16 valve spring shims P/N 10212809.
Technical Notes: This kit does not include roller tappets. If your engine already has roller lifters, you can use them with this kit, but always check for wear and replace if needed before installing this kit. If you are building an engine from a bare block, you can use the roller lifter kit P/N 12371042.
Special Note For ZZ4 Owners: This kit is worth 40HP more when installed in a ZZ4 which will boost the horsepower from 355 to 395, but the ZZ4 comes with the most of the LT4 HOT Cam Kit components already installed. The camshaft and lifters are all that are needed to complete the LT4 Hot Cam conversion on the ZZ4. The ZZ3 and prior versions of the ZZ4 will require the complete kit for the upgrade.
Installation Instructions And Cam Card

Without the 1.6 rockers you do not get the 525/525 lift. So you need the whole kit, not just a camshaft if you do the LT4 hotcam.

P/N 12464298 Fastburn heads. These are the NEW design which are improved over the old design fastburns. $625.00 EACH! from Gilbert Chevrolet. $1,250.00 total.

http://www.superchevyperformance.com/product_p/12497186.htm $517 from Hendricks super Chevy ea. $1,050 if you buy there.

So we have 3,350+550+1050+shipping (engine is not free), plus we need a gasket set. I'll be the person assembling my heads to my GMPP block. Can't trust anybody else. Cometic head gaskets for my build. Stock intake gaskets.

$4,950+gaskets and shipping. I'm not so sure this deal can be beat in terms of bang for the buck. BIG BANG. More like a BOOM.

I'm seriously tempted to have this engine delivered and dropped in for my birthday.

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"475-515 hp/480-525#Tq"

That was crank with accessories, right? I hope you aren't planning on making that power on cat pee without some type of forced induction at the wheels. That would be too much I think.

I think a solid 500hp, more than 500tq. (I'm thinking 600+) is what the engine should could and is going to make. I'm just not sure the marine intake is going to suffice. I think i'll be adapting the cfm-tech acid dipped to this project using stock marine rails and hardware.

When are you thinking about doing this project? I'll be able to tell you very shortly if the marine rails will feed the cfm-tech and also more importantly if LT1 or any other rail will work.

Very soon...very soon...

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Post This what I have found regarding the Vortec Heads*** 
Please Note: The casting number myth debunked:
The myth is that there is a difference in the head performance produced by these two castings.
This myth was started by some Magazines that didn't do their homework before publishing their articles.
This is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So sayith the Grand Wizard GM and his Apprentice Wizard GILBERT CHEVROLET.
10239906 casting has one large single hump.
12558062 casting has 3 small humps.
If either of these two castings have not been altered by GM and the part number changed from 12558060 or altered by someone else (previous owner, etc.), the heads produced by either casting will be identical except for the external cosmetic difference. Both castings are used to make the 12558060 Vortec heads which are the true unaltered Vortec heads.
Heads from both castings come out of their cast IDENTICAL except for the minor cosmetic external differences!!!!!!!!


You can find the whole article here:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/frame.html?/ChevySmallBlockV8s/ZZ383-425.html

Hope that helps

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Post ***383 stroker*** 
I have the money set aside waiting for this project. Just trying to find the best engine combination, and not overlook anything, so I don't have to WASTE money. I am looking for a tried and true combination. The engines I have been seeing all seem to a carburetor setup. I don't know if the numbers they are claiming with the carb setup would be adversely affected or benefited from the multi port system that this forum has been putting together/talking about, in the various combinations (marine intake, holley, intake, Accel intake, etc, etc, etc)

Do you know? or anybody else who has been following this thread for that matter.

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I definitely don't have any hard data myself.

Vortec Stroker came to my house and has an Ed Wright mail order tune (the only guy I'd ever let mail me a tune is Ed Wright) and a 383cu in. engine.

He ran a 14.0 1/4 mile and then a 13.7 1/4 mile. I think he ran it at around 100mph. Truck is nice and fast I'll tell you that.

Pretty sure he is on iron vortecs, LT4 hotcam and 383 engine. PM Vortec Stroker and bug him to add to this thread.

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A while back, I think it was Sallee or SDPC that built and sold the Ramjet ZZ430.

It used tehRamjet intake manifold, injection assembly, ported Fastburn heads, roller cam on a 350 block to get a fuel injected 430 hp, just like the legendary ZZ430 carbed crate engine. Notice that to get the 430 hp the company needed to port teh Fastburn heads, while the carb version didnt.

There are a couple very important questions.
1. Do you want to keep the Vortec style heads (ETEC, Vortec, Bowtie Vortec, FAsburn) or are you prepared to step up to some of the new Eliminator series AFR heads that are available at $2000 a set?? These new heads are outputting 30 hp MORE than the previous AFR heads. You can get AFR heads for $1400 a set but its teh competition port job you want for the big numbers you crave.

2. Whats your definition of driveable?? Is barely idling at stoplights your idea of daily driveable, or do you want absolutley ZERO stoplight drama and to pull 18 " of vaccuum??


If youw an easy 525-550 gross hp, I would get a truck LQ4/9 6.0, drop on some L92 heads/intake, roller cam, headers, PCm calibration and your done.

heck a stock Ls6 or LS2 crate engine is busting out 400 NET hp or about 500 gross crank hp.

the oft heralded Fastburn headed ZZ430 has NOTHING on a stock LS6 or really even an stock LS1 engine.
Since we keep reading about big power numbers from the GEn 3/4 engines, we expect to be able to come close with teh GEn 1E equipement, but it doesnt happen unless you spend the big bucks.

I say, find a 400 sbc(could be substituted for a GM 383), install roller cam, get the massive 235cc intake port Vortec heads, James posted about months ago, get a big assed carb tunnel ram(converted to EFI) throw a 90mm t-body on top of it, run the Hooker Supercomp 28061HRK 1 3/4"headers. Run it in teh lightest truck you can, get nice performance torque converter so you dont hate theengine at low revs, and gear thethingproperly.

here are some 500 hp smallblocks from Salee Chev.
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/frame.html?/start.html
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/frame.html?/start.html


Take the money needed to either A)machine the vortecs for more lift B)porting them C)installing screw in studs or getting the studs pinned
And buy some other head. Dont get me wrong, teh stock Vortec heads are an amazing head esp. since they came exclusivley on trucks(in this bolt pattern)
This is a good article with good pics about teh Vortecs.
http://www.customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0405cct_vortec_cylinder_heads_small_block_chevy/

I really like this inexpensive Vortec carb intake maniofld. It is an Ebay special, but at $142 you can go wrong. plumb that baby for injectors and fuel rails, and you have a nice chunck of change to go into better heads.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Chevy-350-Intake-Manifold-HURRICANE-VORTEC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ36474QQihZ010QQitemZ200024405401QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

I know there is going to be a lot of people that will say, that will kill low end torque. I know a PCM.Chip tuner that took this EXACT intake, threw it on a Vortec headed 355, dropped on the stock TBIā„¢ unit and is able to tow a 3500 lb Camaro just fine in OD with 3.42 gears. Just remember this is with a spot on tune installed. Most wild combos can be mellowed with the correct PCM/ECM tuning.


Vortec STroker IS on iron Vortecs, but they have been cleaned up some. He dynoed at 330 rwhp BEFORE his Vmaxx spacer, LT4 KM, and new plugs. Just imagine what he would dyno with an upgraded intake manifold??
If you take Vortec strokers combo, swap in some Iron Bowtie Vortec heads (the 175cc smallports or the 207cc large ports) power would be up substantially.

Here is a thread in which I have posted most of the available Vortec raised runner heads that are available, including the 180cc intake port heads from engine quest which made 443 hp on a 350 (carbed).
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4622&highlight=bowtie

I have seen dyno runs of the smallport 175ccintake port heads and they are right their with teh MUCH larger 210cc intake port FAsburn GMPP heads and even are better in some areas. The LArgeport 207cc Bowtie Vortec heads arent any more powerful on the same engine. But they do shine when intriduced on a larger displacement engine.

So much info, so many parts, so much money spending potential. Bottom line, if it can be done with a carb, it can be done with EFI. It really all boils down to "How fast do you wanna spend"? You can go from Zero to $10,000 in a hurry.

peace
Hog

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