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Energy cost
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Just curious

What is the average yearly cost of heating a house in the northern states, and what would be the most efficient way of doing so?

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Quite expensive, especially if you use an oil burner. Can't give an actual cost as when I lived up there the military paid my heating bill. The most cost effective way to heat your house is to first, insulate the hell out of it, then heat with wood that you cut.

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Most people up here use natural gas or if you aren't near a gas line, propane tanks.

You can always augment that with wood to save money.

We have had bills in the dead of winter around 150 a month, but of course that is offset by almost no bill in summer.

Just the water heater uses gas in warmer months. We also have a fireplace insert in our family room so we can just keep that area warm and turn down the heat in rest of the house.

My wife is a heat nazi, i'm always freezing cuz she is so cheap. I can probably look back at some of our bills if you want more detail.

I have a friend who has radiant floor heat and that seems to be pretty efficient and there is not as much dust and stuff blowing around like a forced air system.

My cousin who does tree work and has unlimited access to wood has an outside wood burner which pipes hot water into the house. These types of systems are being targeted by the EPA though in the future.

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What about wood pellet stoves?

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z71gmc06 wrote:
Most people up here use natural gas or if you aren't near a gas line, propane tanks.

You can always augment that with wood to save money.

We have had bills in the dead of winter around 150 a month, but of course that is offset by almost no bill in summer.

Just the water heater uses gas in warmer months. We also have a fireplace insert in our family room so we can just keep that area warm and turn down the heat in rest of the house.



That's pretty good (in my opinion) considering Michigan had some of the coldest weather this last winter with an average a little below 20*F

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/detroit-mi/48226/february-weather/348755?monyr=2/1/2015


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My parents in Montreal paid around $300 in February for an average of 6*F. That's baseboard electric heating for a cost of $0.07 / Kw IIRC

Wood is cheap if you have it but the laws are getting strict.

Most efficient heating seems to be geothermal thermopumps.



Trying to figure out a way to lower their energy bill...


This is the electric cost break down:

RATE STRUCTURE
Fixed charge per day 40.64¢

Energy cost

First 30 kWh/day 5.68¢/kWh

Remaining energy consumption 8.60¢/kWh


Price of power
Power demand, expressed in kilowatts (kW), is the total amount of electricity required by equipment at a given time. In more technical terms, it is the combined effect of voltage, expressed in volts (V), and current, expressed in amperes (A).
power (kW) = voltage (V) x current (A)
1,000


above 50 kW

In winter $6.21/kW

In summer $3.15/kW

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The EPA is just requiring more efficiency out of wood stoves right now, not an outright ban yet. IMO this is actually a good thing from the EPA (for a change) as the new stoves are supposed to be efficient enough that there's almost no ash left when the fire's done.

I plan to heat my next house with wood because I've got 14 acres of it. Been looking into it pretty hard.

If you do go with an outdoor stove spend the extra to get the heavy duty one as the cheaper thin metal ones burn out and have to be replaced after just a few years. You aren't going to save the money if you have to spend 3-4 grand every 5 years to replace it. The main advantage to this setup is you only have to load it once, maybe twice a day and it keeps the inside of the house cleaner.

On the pellet stoves, careful there as well. You want to make sure you have a good supply of pellets, or perhaps get your own pellet maker. When the weather turns nasty pellet supplies disappear overnight. I'd make sure to have enough storage on hand so you can buy enough to last the entire winter and would assume that every winter is going to be a bad one.

Geothermal, if I remember correctly the geothermal heat pump runs about 30 percent of an air exchange heat pump in operating costs but that savings is taken by the very high initial cost for installation. They say the tubing is warrantied for 50 years but that doesn't include installing the replacement line. The line itself is pretty cheap but about 90 percent of that cost is install. To put it in they either trench your entire yard or drill several 300 foot deep holes, then lay in a special concrete that holds the tubing in place and thermally locks it to the ground to maximize heat exchange. If you have a decent sized deep pond near the house that never goes dry and doesn't freeze solid you can have the pipe run along the bottom of the pond for a huge cost savings.

There is another alternative if you don't mind the DIY look. There was this guy in the Rocky Mountains somewhere close to the Canadian border that made a solar hat water heating setup. He used the sun to heat a water/glycol mix in tubes set at an angle facing the sun on the side of a barn. Even on an overcast day in winter he was able to get some heat off it. When the sun was out he said he was getting 200 degree water at the top of the tubes within 10 minutes of sunrise. Once he had the water in the large tank hot enough, it was enough to keep his house warm via a radiant heating system. If I remember correctly he also had a tap off to warm the water for his hot water heater. Once the system was in place, it only cost him the expense of running a water pump to keep the water circulating and that pump can also be run off the sun. It's been a while since I read the article on it (I'll have to see if I can find it) but I think it ran him less than a grand to install and he was claiming a 20-30 dollar a month heating bill in the worst of winter.

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CrazyHoe wrote:
My parents in Montreal paid around $300 in February for an average of 6*F. That's baseboard electric heating for a cost of $0.07 / Kw IIRC

Wood is cheap if you have it but the laws are getting strict.

Most efficient heating seems to be geothermal thermopumps.



Trying to figure out a way to lower their energy bill...


This is the electric cost break down:

RATE STRUCTURE
Fixed charge per day 40.64¢

Energy cost

First 30 kWh/day 5.68¢/kWh

Remaining energy consumption 8.60¢/kWh


Price of power
Power demand, expressed in kilowatts (kW), is the total amount of electricity required by equipment at a given time. In more technical terms, it is the combined effect of voltage, expressed in volts (V), and current, expressed in amperes (A).
power (kW) = voltage (V) x current (A)
1,000


above 50 kW

In winter $6.21/kW

In summer $3.15/kW

In Ontario we pay 8.2 cents/kW/H for off peak and 16.4 cents kw/h on peak (7am-noon & 5pm-7pm). That is some good pricing for electricity in Quebec.

Furnace oil was $1.04/liter last Winter. Natural gas was around $0.25 a cubic meter.

peace
Hog

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Hog wrote:


First 30 kWh/day 5.68¢/kWh

Remaining energy consumption 8.60¢/kWh


above 50 kW

In winter $6.21/kW

In summer $3.15/kW

In Ontario we pay 8.2 cents/kW/H for off peak and 16.4 cents kw/h on peak (7am-noon & 5pm-7pm). That is some good pricing for electricity in Quebec.

Furnace oil was $1.04/liter last Winter. Natural gas was around $0.25 a cubic meter.

peace
Hog[/quote]

That's mostly from hydoturbines.
They also have wind turbines which is a big fail financially

Even at those low prices, the electric corp. racks in huge profits.

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Good source of info:

http://energy.gov/articles/energy-saver-101-infographic-home-heating

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Found that solar shed article I was talking about.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/SolarShed/solarshed.htm

I was kinda thinking about using this, only instead of radiant heating I was going to rig a radiator inside the central heat and air unit. If I do this, I plan to leave the existing heater in place in case the water setup can't keep up.

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Nice set-up

For the longest time, I bought the Home Power mag:
You can get their past articles on CD
http://www.homepower.com/

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Affordable solar panels soon to reach 30% efficiency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perovskite_solar_cell



(Traditional single-junction cells have a maximum theoretical efficiency of 33.16%)

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Interesting, but there was an awful lot of lead compounds mentioned. Considering lead is considered a highly toxic pollutant, I wonder what that would mean towards using this sort of cell.

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Don't lick Very Happy

Could be an issue in case of house fires. The really cool thing is that they kept progressing and hopefully other less toxic discoveries to come.

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Possibly could be an issue with hail as well, depending on what happens when it's hit like that. But yeah, ever advancing.

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