So the 480/480 cam with the 108 lsa will be perfect for what i want then. Most of my driving is in the lower rpm so i want a good low end torque im not too worried about crazy top end hp. All im asking this to make is is the 385 that the whipple was making...if not a few more. With the 2" 670 cfm tbi™ 400 hp should be achievable. And from my experiences with Lyndon Wester we had way better luck tuning the na with good results than we did tunight with the whipple...it never did run 100% right to its full potential...

Will 350 vortec heads mount up to a 400 sbc? If so what kind of a cam profile would it take to feed it? And induction system? Obviously the 454 tbi™ should move enough air but would 70#/hr injectors be enough? Ive liked the idea of a 400 for a long time but i was told today i can get a running 400 for $900. Also there are long blocks for 200. Would that howards cam 480/480 lift 230/230 duration work in that? Just thinkin if i do a few small things to my 350 if i could reuse them on a 400 if i got it...

Just thinkin about options out loud

One of the magazines put 350 vortec heads on a 406........they nicknamed the motor The Impersonator........it impersonates a bigblock with over 500ft/lbs of torque........Lorne

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0306_chevrolet_406_big_block_torque/index.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0405em_chevy_small_block_engine/viewall.html


http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0401_chevrolet_406_ci_engine_build/viewall.html

I like the looks of that. 500 plus with the same cam profile that i was thinkin about and the same heads that i have...this may very well be the option that i go with. Still not sure. But how much can a stage 2 rebuilt 4l60e take? Sounds like its only about 4-500 to have it rebuilt race ready but until then. Its got 25000km on it now and only 2 years old. Doesnt get above 69*C even pulling a trailor...well thats from what i can see on data master e6

Tighten (smaller LSA number) | Say 108*

Moves Torque to Lower RPM | No raises it higher
Increases Maximum Torque | More like max HP
Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure | Depends on the dynamics
Increase Chance of Engine Knock | ????
Increase Cranking Compression |Not if there's overlap!!
Increase Effective Compression | Not if there's overlap!!





Widen (larger LSA number) say 118*

Raise Torque to Higher RPM - Opposite!!
Reduces Maximum Torque - A bit, but spreads it out
Reduce Maximum Cylinder Pressure - Increase at lower rpm
Decrease Chance of Engine Knock - Opposite if anything
Decrease Cranking Compression - No
Decrease Effective Compression - no!!


Basically, small LSA gives you more power at high RPM but can bog at low rpm and big LSA makes stomp pullers.

But intake valve duration plays a huge role also... And lsa will act differently whether the engine is under valve or not. Jim, just simulate a basic 350 in dd2000 and alternate between 108 and 118 and you'll see the affects

erik_bob wrote:

I like the looks of that. 500 plus with the same cam profile that i was thinkin about and the same heads that i have...this may very well be the option that i go with. Still not sure. But how much can a stage 2 rebuilt 4l60e take? Sounds like its only about 4-500 to have it rebuilt race ready but until then. Its got 25000km on it now and only 2 years old. Doesnt get above 69*C even pulling a trailor...well thats from what i can see on data master e6

I tried the built 4LPOS60E in my Tahoe. It took them like 4 tries before they had one that wouldn't scatter parts within 2 weeks of install behind a 210RWHP/275RWTQ engine in a 4600lb vehicle. I won't rule out poor workmanship though, so if you want to try it stay away from Art Carr Transmissions in Texas.

I have in there now a rebuilt from transmission express in edmonton alberta. I think it may have already let go or is letting go. In drive stopped at a red light, stopsign or drive through it kinda makes a rattleing noise. But only in drive. There is only around 25000km on it but i was putting 385 motor hp and 400ft-lbs. so maybe it is done. Quick $1600

what is more crucial? duration or lift? since the vortec heads dont flow that great after 500 im guessing the duration is where its at... ive been playing on engine analyzer and desk top dyno for a few hrs tonight running different cam profiles and im getting around 414 ft-lb and 373hp... are these numbers close to what it actually would be? or is it a little on the giving side

if the howards cam is really goona gime me that or something close to that then that would be the cheapest and easiest rout, only thing with that was it made the 373 at 5500 and the 414 at 4500...mind you it also says 380 ft-lb at 2000 so idunno

That will be at the crank. As a rule of thumb, multiply the crank HP and the crank TQ by 0.8 to get an idea of what you'll see at the rear wheels. The only way to know for sure what the driveline loss is would be to dyno the engine before installation, then dyno the vehicle after installation.

My stock Vortec head recommendation: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-54779LUN/

Overlap: 49.5*
112* LSA 108* IN centerline
268 279 (215 224)
.489 .489

RPM TQ
2000 388
2500 399
4000 429
5500 374 hp- 392

This cam has exact same power curve as my Lunati 60121 which has 270-278, 112-106, 515-530!!!!!
Weird....

Drops sharp from 5250 but ok since stock valve train is not meant to go beyond 6000.

Stock converter is ok with this cam

Howard cam you choose:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-180305-08/

Overlap: 66* Choppy Idle, less vacuum

Rpm TQ
2000 351
2500 362
3500 396
4000 409
4500 411
5500 378 -hp395

Would need a 3000 stall converter

I don't like this cam.


You know, if you want budget built, stock rockers, just a cam an no work to the heads what so ever, than get the oem vortecs.

Keep in mind that the valves guides might have to be redone anyway!!!


If not, then don't bother and get a nice set of cnc aluminum 170-180cc heads.
And a real cam......

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0507_street_style_vortec_head_test/index.html

http://books.google.ca/books?id=kmTNubYf0p0C&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=vizar+vortec+head+flow&source=bl&ots=WIYWOe7D56&sig=6qi5KwPZ_SSb-4HMHb7UVDPfuvI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hl3wT7qQMKjZ0QGWmt36Ag&ved=0CFkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56505

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Cylinder_Heads/Vortec.cfm

Thanks for the input. Acording to what i read there. All i have to do is grind down the keepers and that should give me what i need for the 500 lift? I have 1.52 roller tip rockers that will bring it up to 496 on that lunati (which may be easier to get, nobody deals howards here)

Also the motor builder here says he has a different style of valve stem seals that allow more lift than the blue rubber umbrella style...

Im still waiting to hear from the neibor about his heads.

My highest shift point is 5250 unless i manually shift it then it will go to the 5400 limiter. Did this just cause it was still pulling hard at 5200 with the whipple on there

Crazyhoe could you run the numbers for the gmpp cam that i have in there now? Id like to see how it compares. I know what its making now and curious to see what it says

Specs are 431/451 lift and 196/206@050. 109 lsa
Motor specs are stock vortec heads with 1.52 rt rockers. New springs( dunno specs off hand can get them if needed) gmpp vortec intake bored to match the 50mm tbi™. 70lb/hr at 12.5psi inj with a vac ref reg. 350 rotating assembly. Small tube headders 2.5" true dual with flo pro flow thru muffelors. Stock water pump and fan. Anything im missing? Oh and low heat rated racing plugs. Only way to keep detonation down with the whipple. Msd blaster coil pack. 7mm wires

They sell +.050 keepers, not expensive.

That is pretty acurate. Race times tell me about 270 at the wheels. 20% more gives 330 ish at the motor. With the specs you gave with that lunati cam i should have around 310 at the wheels. Man that would make it fun to drive...i might just have to go that rout

I dunno why the torque is so high on all graphs, but I toke the head flow numbers from the internet.

Vortec heads and LUN 54779 cam: (I made a mistake on the previous numbers by not selecting the vortec heads - This is even better!)
This is with flow numbers found on the internet


SBC AFR 190


OEM L31:

The problem with the first one you posted, then the third one in the group of three, is the intake and exhaust duration. There's not enough there to feed the engine properly. The 196 to 206 duration can't handle a 350, which is why the torque is falling off a cliff from 2000 on. Peak torque is probably right off idle. Those two cams would likely be able to pull a 10,000 pound trailer, as long as you aren't interested in going on the highway. I ran a similar cam once because the huge torque was attractive and I wasn't paying attention to the HP. What I wound up with was a 350 powered truck that could do the quarter mile in 18 seconds whether I was unloaded or had so much weight on the bed that the bed was resting on the axle. It sucked, since I wanted a truck that would haul @$$, not a truck that would slowly pull a house down. It was like driving a non-turbo diesel. That Lunati cam, on the other hand, would likely be a lot of fun in a 350.

Speeder wrote:

The problem with the first one you posted, then the third one in the group of three, is the intake and exhaust duration.

That's the HT383 cam and the L31 cam.


LUN 60121 cam, 5340 lbs truck, 2500 stall, vortec heads, L31 intake, 4L60e, 3.42:1 diff, 32" tires,
0-60: 8s,
See how it climb after 3500rpm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fobomix4pg&list=UU3ELP4agIHs8-JUaHU9qXjg&index=9&feature=plcp

Does anybody here have the 54779?

So that video was for one of those tiny cams?

Voodoo Hyd Roller Cam - LT1 LT4 270/278 was the label under the video...

As I remember, my Tahoe's speedo gauge would move that fast over 3500RPM with the stock cam in first gear, and almost as fast (but noticeably slower) in second, but it moved a lot slower in third and you needed a calender to measure its movement in 4th, not that I ever remember getting it to go over about 3000RPM in 4th.

Im goona call and see the availability on the lunati 54779 and the price. If i decide to do the vortec 400 at a later point i can pull and reuse the cam in there. The impersonator build had a 480/480 230/230* cam so this should work in there aswell. May save the 400 and build a strictly strip car... Not sure on that yet