Installing GEN 3/4 engine on non GEN3/4 trans&vice-versa

[Hog]

If you want to install a GEN 3/4 engine in a 96-99 truck you can use the existing 4l60e by using this flexplate spacer

EDIT(Apr 2013-current p/ns and added pic) Here are the current p/n for

12563532 flexplate to crank spacer $41.06 http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS1-Fle ... 10346.aspx
19260102 flexplate $79.68 http://www.crateenginedepot.com/FLYWHEE ... 40667.aspx
19257940 bolts $5.28(need 6 bolts) http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS1-Fle ... 10347.aspx

If you want to keep your 305 or 350 but have a more modern 4l60e/65e/70e that was behind a 4.8,5.3,6.0 or 6.2L engine then you need this kit.
$210.07
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Transmi ... 10532.aspx


I find this interesting, because now I can install a 4l65e from a 2006 2wd SS Silverado into my 1997 2wd rcsb. The electronics are the same in all the 4l60e transmissions. The 4l70e has the TCM inside its case.

EDIT April 2013:
More p/n's for Auto Transmissions

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
GMPP flexplate spacer 12563532 Scoggin-Dickey $40.81
GM flexplate for spacer 12551367 Scoggin-Dickey 113.00
GM metric flexplate bolts (6) 12553332 Scoggin-Dickey 2.52 ea.
GM LS1 Engine Kit Install Guide 88959384 Scoggin-Dickey 9.95
Hughes SFI flexplate, 168-tooth HP4004 Summit Racing 129.95
Hughes crankshaft adapter HP3795 Summit Racing 43.95
TCI Gen III/IV flexplate w/ext. 399753 Scoggin-Dickey 192.95
TCI Gen III/IV pilot extension 399753PE Summit Racing 29.69


And now for the Manual Transmissions:

MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Scoggin-Dickey clutch bracket SDCB Scoggin-Dickey $59.95
Keisler LS1 bellhousing call Keisler Engineering $239.95
Quick Time bellhousing 27011 Speedway Motors $374.99
McLeod flywheel 460535 Summit Racing $417.99
McLeod disc, 11-inch, 26-spline 260571 Summit Racing $225.99
McLeod pressure plate, 11-inch 360803 Summit Racing $194.99
McLeod clutch fork 16931 Summit Racing $60.69
McLeod adjustable ball stud 16908 Summit Racing $54.39
McLeod stock throwout bearing 16010 Summit Racing $63.69
McLeod adjustable throwout bearing 16505 Summit Racing $93.99
McLeod adapter pilot bushing 8617 Summit Racing $37.69
GM Gen III/IV flywheel 12561680 Scoggin-Dickey $299.60
GM metric pressure plate bolts (6) 12561465 Scoggin-Dickey $0.56 ea.
GM LS2/LS7 pilot bearing 12557583 Scoggin-Dickey $13.62
GM ball stud, short 3729000 Scoggin-Dickey $10.60
GM ball stud, long 3790556 Scoggin-Dickey $11.66
ARP metric flywheel bolts 330-2802 Summit Racing $26.95
ARP metric flexplate bolts 244-2901 Summit Racing $26.99
ARP metric pressure plate bolts 134-2201 Summit Racing $17.88
ARP metric bellhousing bolts 762-1004 Summit Racing $28.69
Throwout fork boot 178N Year One $11.30


Here are some torque specs that are needed. As well as crankshaft style(1 piece or 2 piece) and the bolt circle diameter
TORQUE SPECS

(ft-lb, unless specified)
Flywheel bolts
15 (1st pass)
37 (2nd pass)
74 (final pass)

Bellhousing bolts
37
Pressure plate bolts, ARP
35

BOLT CIRCLE DIAMETERS
CRANKSHAFT
REAR MAIN SEAL STYLE
BOLT CIRCLE (inches)

Gen I '55 to '86
two-piece
3.58"

Gen I '87 to current
one-piece
3.00"

Gen III/IV '97 to current
one-piece
3.11"

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/cc ... ewall.html

Edit April 2013: I added this pic as it shows the differnce in dimensions in the distance between the trans mount face and the very end of the crankshaft. The GEN 3 crank extends towards the trans furthur than a GEN 3 engine, so if you want a GEN 3/4 trans behind a GEN 1 engine, you need to space the trans back slightly with the GM kit 19154766. If you have a GEN 3 engine and want to use a trans that was from a GEN 1 vehicle, you will need the crank spacer 12563532, 6 longer bolts 19257940 and flexplate 19260102 .



I though some of you might find this interesting.

peace
Hog

[JR96CK]

Good info... thanks for posting that.

[s10mods]

If you want to install a GEn 3/4 engine in a 96-99 truck you can use the existing 4l60e by using this flexplate spacer
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/L ... 343C0.aspx

and 6 of these longer bolts
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/L ... 344C0.aspx


if you want to keep your 305 or 350 but have a more modern 4l60e/65e/70e that was behind a 4.8,5.3,6.0 or 6.2L engine then you need this kit.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/T ... 12C43.aspx


I find this interesting, because now I can install a 4l65e from a 2006 2wd SS Silverado into my 1997 2wd rcsb. The electronics are the same in all teh 4l60e transmissions. The 4l70e has teh TCM inside its case.

I though some of you might find this interesting.





peace
Hog

the spacer and bolts are all GM parts, you would also need the flexplate from a gen3 engine that had a 4L80E. the 4L80E didnt change input shaft length when they went to gen3. I had an extra spacer, flexplate and bolts that my friend used to install a 5.3 in to a 95 burb that he used the stock 95 4L60E and the 2002 411 runs everything just fine. The 4L60E is still holding up to my amazement since it was behind the stout TBIâ„¢ before and has 170K on it.

[scuzz]

That's some really good info.
Thanks for digging that out.
Ron

[Hog]

Bump as I added the info for the Hughes Flexplate Adapter that allows an older 4l60e designed for GEN 1 and GEn 2 apps to work behind a GEn 3 or 4 engine.

peace
Hog

[julianmwallace]

The GM parts you listed first work for the Gen 3/4L60E combo, thats what I have intalled on my '03 6.0/'96 4L60E combo.

[stroker97k1500]

The GM parts you listed first work for the Gen 3/4L60E combo, thats what I have intalled on my>>>>>>>>>> '03 6.0/'96 4L60E combo<<<<<<<.

Don't take off too hard with that 6 liter...... that would be a messy crunch one day

[Hog]

More info here, this is a list that shows the differences in flywheel flange thicknessess.

Crankshaft Replacement Caution For
1998-2005 GM 4.3, 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 & 6.0L Engines

The AERA Technical Committee offers the following information on crankshaft replacement caution for 1998-2003 GM 4.3, 4.8, 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0L engines. Design changes in the flywheel flange thickness have been made to some crankshafts used in the above-mentioned engines. This bulletin is being re-published with additional information.

The later crankshafts are shorter on the flywheel flange as seen in the listing below. These changes are due to the many different vehicle / transmission combinations being built by GM.

A flywheel spacer ring GM Part #12563532 and a longer bolt set GM Part #12563533 is required when using a thin flange crankshaft to replace a thick flange crankshaft. Also, if the crankshaft is being used in a vehicle, which is a standard shift application, you also need pilot bushing GM Part #12557583 or 12479894.

Note: GM part numbers correct as of 12-18-04.

Years Liters Casting # Trans Flange Thickness

1998 early 4.3L 236, 255 V-6 1.62 thick flange
1998+up 4.3L 236, 255 V-6 1.500 thick flange
1999-2000 4.8L 312 V-8 M/T 1.250 thick flange
1999-2000 6.0L 215 V-8 1.250 thick flange
1999-2005 4.8L 482 V-8 A/T .857 thick flange
2001-2005 4.8L 482 V-8 M/T .857 thick flange
1999-2005 5.3L 216 V-8 A/T .857 thick flange
1997-2005 5.7L 216 V-8 .857 thick flange
2001-2005 6.0L 216 V-8 .857 thick flange

All GEN III crankshafts used in Camaro, Corvette and Firebird have a .857 thick flange and also have a freeze plug installed at the bottom of the pilot shaft hole. The 4.8, 5.3 + 6.0L don?t have the freeze plug. The drilled hole thru the centerline of the 5.7L LS1 & LS6 crankshafts allows a path to balance crankcase pressure within the lower crankcase. Doing so has eliminated possible oil consumption when the engine is operated over 4800 RPM.

Caution: Early crankshafts use a flat reluctor wheel and late have a recess. Recess will work on all years. Do not use a flat reluctor on late applications as it will cause an engine misfire.

peace
Hog

[Hog]

Bump for new kit part numbers and prices.

peace
Hog

[irisservice]

I find this interesting, because now I can install a 4l65e from a 2006 2wd SS Silverado into my 1997 2wd rcsb. The electronics are the same in all the 4l60e transmissions. The 4l70e has the TCM inside its case.

I though some of you might find this interesting.

peace
Hog

I thought you would need a 411 computer to run the 4l65e in gmt400?

[Ratchet831]

I find this interesting, because now I can install a 4l65e from a 2006 2wd SS Silverado into my 1997 2wd rcsb. The electronics are the same in all the 4l60e transmissions. The 4l70e has the TCM inside its case.

I though some of you might find this interesting.

peace
Hog

I thought you would need a 411 computer to run the 4l65e in gmt400?

No sir, you can run the 65e in a GMT400 no problem without the 0411.

[Hog]

I find this interesting, because now I can install a 4l65e from a 2006 2wd SS Silverado into my 1997 2wd rcsb. The electronics are the same in all the 4l60e transmissions. The 4l70e has the TCM inside its case.

I though some of you might find this interesting.

peace
Hog

I thought you would need a 411 computer to run the 4l65e in gmt400?

No, as mentioned the old BB will run the 65e just fine, the 411 is need to run the engine that came in front of it though(LQ4/LQ9, LS1, LS2 etc)

peace
Hog

[Tinbender59]

Hog: you are one cool dude, wish I had ran across you before I got into the mess that I am currently in. oh well better prepaired next time I'd guess

[Tinbender59]

P.S. some one please make this a Sticky, it is great for us amatures

[Hog]

Updated p/n's and prices and links.

Tinbenderm thanks for the props, since this isnt a sticky, in order to find the link, just do a search for "hughes" you'll get 1 single page of results and you'll see it.

peace
Hog

[Hog]

Updated for part numbers to install manual transmissions.

If you need to find this thread use the word "Hughes" as teh search term. This thread comes up as the 2nd serch result.

peace
Hog

[Glendias583]

This is all good info, but being the amateur I am, how much harder would it be to do a 6.0L Vortec on a 700r4 transmission? Would there be any major difference in installation?

[Speeder]

Welcome. The hardest part would be working out the TB cable connection, especially if using a throttle by wire hookup. Beyond that, you'd need a manual transmission program for the engine computer, and find the correct torque converter to fit. You can also get a vacuum operated torque converter lockup module for a 1987 Chevy truck. It's just a vacuum operated electrical on/off switch.

[Hog]

Bump: I had forgot the search terms which work for this thread.

The search terms "GEN3/4" work for this thread, its the 5th search result.

Another thread I use a lot, is the post I made with the GM info about the 3 different Vortec 350 L31 crate engines that are available. The search terms for that thread are "granddaddy".

12530282 $2,185.60
12530283 $2,236.08
And the "granddaddy of the L31s, the alternative fuel ready GEN 1E SBC L31, used in the W4 trucks from 1996-2003. They are the weirdo looking cab forward commercial trucks where the cab tilts forward for service.
12569010 $4,874.91 350 CID New 5.7L 1996-2003 Chevrolet, GMC W4 (L31)
See the price of the "granddaddy" of the L31's? More than double. I'd love to say that for paying an extra $2500 that the strong nodular iron crankshaft was replaced with a forged steel crank, or that the Powdered Metal con rods were upgraded to Titanium con rods, or that the cast hypereutectic aluminum pistons were actually upgraded to forged aluminum pistons. What you do truly get is the sodium filled exhaust valves, specially prepared valve seats so that the engine can run gasoline or an alternative fuel such as CNG(Compressed Natural Gas) or LPG(Liquified Petroleum Gas).

The "010" is the SBC of the BBC L21 engine which is also ready to rock roll LPG and CNG in addition to gasoline.
19207551 $5900 1998 - 2000 Lt Dty Trk 454 (L21) New Goodwrench Engine It is basically a GEN-6 1996-2000 L29 but with the Coil Near Plug ignition(CNP) and and Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) aka drive-by-wire

For comparison the "regular" 1996-2000 rpo L29 is:
19207552 for $5600. Not more than double like the "010" SBC L31 is.

Anywhoooo, here is a pic of a W4 truck. I think this a 1995 model, but they all look similar even through 2017. The 2017 has a weird 5.4 liter 4 cylinder engine.



I know my brain works in weird ways. All you need to know is search terms (codewords) "Granddaddy and "GEN3/4", then you can buy an engine, and install it in any GM vehicle. lol

peace
Hog

[no cigar]

Hey guys. First time poster here!

I have a quick question about the 19154766 kit from GM... What exactly are the three small spacers for? I get that the bell housing need spacer between the engine because of the larger TC, but not sure what those three little ones are for.

I'm glad to see this kit is available. I have a 2-door Tahoe that had its 4L60E take a dump. I found a rebuilt trans out of a 2004-2005 truck for $400 with a fresh 300mm TC so I jumped on it and have been trying to research what it's gonna take to get it installed. Looks like this is all I'd need??

Thanks!