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does anyone follow real estate.....
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Post does anyone follow real estate..... 
thinking of buying some investment real estate. Just curious how things compared to the rest of the country on annual gross rents, expenses vs. asking price. Guys here are asking (and unfortunately getting) ridiculous prices. Just wondering if something outside my general area might be smarter.

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Post Tulsa area 
housing goes for 80-300K. Rent starts at 600/mo for the houses you wouldn't want to be in when it rains to a couple grand a month. Rent is typically 200 more than a house payment would be. Bad thing about renting is having a bad renter that trashes the place. You'd have to be insured against someone doing thousands in damage to the place. Good thing about renting is you have someone else making the house payment, and once the house is paid it's pretty much free money. Just make sure you are willing to jump in and fix the nastiness of other people. Oh yeah, and the plumbing always breaks on a Sunday, when the plumbers are charging double time and a half. I don't think I'd have the patience to be a landlord. If I were to do it, I'd hire a service to take care of the details.

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I've always heard you can't go wrong investing in real estate. My bro-in-law owns a couple dozen houses in the city and is grossing about $2000 a month. I have no ideas what his expenses so its hard to say if it is worth the effort or no. I suppose the goal is to make the houses pay for themselves and sell them off once they've appreciated enough....

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Post I think it depends 
on the quality of the renter. Best way to go IMO would be to buy bare land in a farming community, then lease the land to farmers for running cattle. Buy the land 10-15 miles outside of a town that is growing. Eventually that land you paid 1000-2000 an acre for will be worth 20-30 grand a lot. That's the situation I find myself in, the land I bought last year for 1250/acre is now up for sale for 7000/acre, and if it doesn't sell before long it will be raised in price. The town is slowly moving south, and land just 5-6 miles north has gone from being 100/acre scrubland to 30,000/lot housing developments. I'd like to go ahead and get this sold now rather than wait on the town to come in, because there is other land I have my eye on that is further out, and would be more suitable to my retirement plans. If it doesn't sell, I'll just reap the major profits later when the developers reach it.

Another real benefit to buying bare land is if you have the capital (and we all know you do) then when it comes time to develop the land you can do it yourself. You'd have to hire a surveyer to parcel it up, and pay the appropriate county fees to register the parcels. Then, start selling home sites for about 20-100 times the price per acre you paid. It would depend on what sort of housing market you aim for, be it affordable family housing or upscale luxury. I just don't have the capital I'd need to do the developing myself so I'll just take less of the pie and none of the headaches when the time comes.

My biggest problem is, I'll never be rich unless I hit the lottery. I just don't have the drive to become rich, as long as I've got a roof over my head and food in my belly I'm happy.

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Speeders generally right on, but alot of that depends on where you live. I live in semi-rural Maryland and our county has dramatically capped the number of lots that it will give permits to. Seems to me that they will only approve 50 lots, per subdivision, per year, so even at 1000 lots that a 20 year development period. Frankly, I'd be dead before that ever came to fruition.

Sure I could by 1000 acres and hope to subdivide it, but if slow-growth advocates take over, then I could find myself sitting on 1000 acres with limited resale value and maybe only good as a tax deduction if I put it into agricultural preservation.

John.

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Post Wow... 
02indigoblue wrote:
Speeders generally right on, but alot of that depends on where you live. I live in semi-rural Maryland and our county has dramatically capped the number of lots that it will give permits to. Seems to me that they will only approve 50 lots, per subdivision, per year, so even at 1000 lots that a 20 year development period. Frankly, I'd be dead before that ever came to fruition.

Sure I could by 1000 acres and hope to subdivide it, but if slow-growth advocates take over, then I could find myself sitting on 1000 acres with limited resale value and maybe only good as a tax deduction if I put it into agricultural preservation.

John.


I had no idea they did stuff like that. I can understand it on one of the coasts though. Sounds like the need to run for the council that approves these things, then get a few buds in there too. Then you could rubber stamp the approvals, and tie up the slow growth advocates in red tape till the jobs were done. But I'd never want to live in a place where I could be told what I was allowed to do with something I own like that. Getting to be like that everywhere I guess, might have to move to Mexico to live in a free country.

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Agreed, but I really do like where I live. Our former State Administration was based on "Smart Growth" meaning, keep growth where infrastructure already exists. Which I can agree with, except that the extremists came in and perveted "Smart Growth" into "you can't use your own ATV on your own property". No Sh!t. I'm not advocating either postion (after all, 1/3 of an acre doesn't give one much room to run an ATV), but check this out:

http://carrollcountylandowners.net/

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Post Hey 02indigoblue, we're neighbors... 
I live in Hampstead. I see your profile says Westminster. For those who don't live in MD, Westminster and Hampstead are neighboring towns in a semi-rural area about 30 miles northwest of Baltimore. I signed a contract for a new house back in july of '03 and moved in June '04. The neighborhood is still under development, and the prices of the houses have skyrocketed. According to what the salesman at the model home says, my house is going for well over $100k more than what I paid for it. We kinda lucked out getting in there before the real estate market completely blew up. Funny, you pretty much have a neighborhood full of people who could not afford their own houses if they were to purchase them at current market rates. I lucked out and got a 5.5% finance rate for my house, too. Hopefully the values of the homes will not decrease as the rates rise and the market cools off a bit. Another thing that makes real estate prices in Hampstead rise, is the fact that there isn't really any new construction going on there currently.

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Post PS... 
Thank God Governor Glendenning and his administration are out!!

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wanna hear an interesting story...

78-05/07 Myrtle Avenue, Glendale, NY (Northside of Myrtle Avenue, Between 78th and 79th Street)
Mixed-Use Investment Buildings,Mixed-Use User Buildings,Outer Boroughs
Two contiguous, newly renovated mixed-use properties totaling approx. 39 feet of frontage on the north side of Myrtle Avenue between 78th Street and 79th Street. The entire ground floor plus basement is leased to Flynn and O'hara School Uniforms through March 31st, 2007. The second floor of each property contain two newly renovated 2-bedroom apartments which may be delivered vacant at closing. These properties have been fully renovated with all operating systems updated. The approximate annual income is $130,123. The approximate expenses are $11,953. The approximate NOI is $118,170. Asking Price: $1,595,000 Representative/s: Thomas A. Donovan,Tommy C. H. Lin

okay turns out these two buildings were part of 4 which were a funeral home closer to my house than my funeral home (lil better area, more 1 and 2 family homes vs. all apts by my funeral home. Back in the end of 98 early 99, my old man was in talks with the owner of that funeral home to buy his place, but they couldn't agree on a number. Turns out the guy (who honestly is a piece of crap to me) was about to be foreclosed upon, and stupid ass that he is/was the city did foreclose on him as my dad was offering to buy the place (with no clue about the pending foreclosure till after the fact). So those 4 buildings were picked up for just under 600K from the city. My old man was offering more like 800-1M (not too sure and he ain't here to ask) I met the new owner when we were clearing out funeral type equipment from the building as he was renovating. Well his asking price is a little high (but honestly not very high, can probably get 1.3) So for 4 buildings for less than 600K, renovations and a face lift (did that stucco crap all over the front) Its amazing what an investment of about 800K now is worth close to 2.5 million. Maybe I need to follow foreclosures...

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i hear lubbocks real nice this time of year

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Post Yes, you do... 
I know folks that make a nice chunk of change buying up foreclosed houses, doing a quick and dirty remodelling job then selling for 10-15 grand more than they spent. Sometimes they can get more when they sell the house they bought at market rates when they paid 10 grand or less for it. I always tell myself I'm going to get into it, but I guess I'm just too comfy to make the effort. I have just a little more coming in than I have go out, but much as I hate the job it really is pretty easy to do. Heh heh, I'm just naturally lazy I guess...

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Dave, my house is the same way only more so. Bought it 5 years ago and its now worth double what I paid, but even if I did sell it, where would I go to get a comparable house without at $750,000 price tag? My friend just bought in Manchester and his house is already "worth" $50,000 more that he paid AND IT ISN'T FINISHED BEING BUILT YET!

Speeder, got to be careful that you don't get accused of flipping the houses though. Alot of that going on in urban areas, where the owner buys the house at fire sale prices, gets a fake appraisal then sells to some poor fool at an inflated price.

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just get the difference in cash and avoid capital gains taxes.

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Post Real Estate 
I stopped by the sales office today and talked to the sales weasel there, and he said my house has gained about $175K in equity. Been in it for less than a year. SHEESH!! But you're right...where would I go that would be better for less than $500-$700k?

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and we thought greenspan lowering interest rates was a good thing...

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"During the dot.com bubble and its collapse, economists and historians increased their study of market crazes of the past, particularly the most ludicrous one of all: the 17th-century Dutch flower bubble. The classic description of Tulipmania appeared in Clarence Mackay's 1841 classic Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, "In 1634, the rage among the Dutch to possess them was so great that the ordinary industry of the country was neglected, and the population, even to its lowest dregs, embarked in the tulip trade."

"The normally sane Dutch bourgeoisie got carried away and bid up prices of tulip bulbs spectacularly in winter 1637, only to see them crash in spring. One bulb was reportedly sold in February 1637 for 6,700 guilders, "as much as a house on Amsterdam's smartest canal, including coach and garden," and many times the 150-guilder average income. As Earl A. Thompson, an economist at the University of California at Los Angeles, and Jonathan Treussard, a graduate student at Boston University, note in a working paper, "the contract price of tulips in early February 1637 reached a level that was about 20 times higher than in both early November 1636 and early May 1637."

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flyingpolarbear wrote:
"During the dot.com bubble and its collapse, economists and historians increased their study of market crazes of the past, particularly the most ludicrous one of all: the 17th-century Dutch flower bubble. The classic description of Tulipmania appeared in Clarence Mackay's 1841 classic Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, "In 1634, the rage among the Dutch to possess them was so great that the ordinary industry of the country was neglected, and the population, even to its lowest dregs, embarked in the tulip trade."

"The normally sane Dutch bourgeoisie got carried away and bid up prices of tulip bulbs spectacularly in winter 1637, only to see them crash in spring. One bulb was reportedly sold in February 1637 for 6,700 guilders, "as much as a house on Amsterdam's smartest canal, including coach and garden," and many times the 150-guilder average income. As Earl A. Thompson, an economist at the University of California at Los Angeles, and Jonathan Treussard, a graduate student at Boston University, note in a working paper, "the contract price of tulips in early February 1637 reached a level that was about 20 times higher than in both early November 1636 and early May 1637."


You just summed up USA and our current housing dilemma. Many people are living beyond their means. Plain and simple.

We will see a rash of foreclosures in urban expensive areas. I forecast an 18% forecloseure rate within the next 3-5 years.

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wasnt he smart

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Pro wrote:
wasnt he smart































Indeed...

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