I apologize if I use the wrong terms here.

I have an HEI distributor (this one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850001-1/ ) Non-computer controlled.

And I've had some starting issues with it that have gotten progressively worse (and when the engine is cold, it runs REALLY rough and will die if the idle isn't held up high).

I've been doing some reading and saw that it tends to be a one-two punch. The coil fails from heat over time, and as it dies, it fries the module as well. Multiple places have suggested replacing both. So I was about to order parts to try to do that - but then read one thread where the guy said to get rid of that coil, and switch it over to an "oil sphere external coil"?

I didn't realize it was possible to "convert" a distributor from internal coil to external, I thought that was "need to replace the whole thing" situation.

So, is that conversion tough to do? The thread where the guy mentioned it, didn't say how to do it, and wasn't asked in the thread. Is it possible on all distributors, or do I run the risk of buying the gear and finding out I need to replace the whole thing anyway.

And then someone said this:

"I just use a Crane HI-6 ignitions on my HEI equipped cars/trucks. It bypasses the module altogether, plus I gain a rev limiter, and all the features of an aftermarket ignition."

That sounds nice, if doing that isn't insanely expensive, I'd like to know the difficulties involved, it'd be good to have a rev limiter.

Any help, instructions, suggestions, would be wonderful. I tried searching here, too... but I think because I'm not using the right combination of terms, I wasn't getting very far. Thanks everyone!

What vehicle are you working on? If it's, by chance, a 96-99 L31 Vortec, then your problem may be a leaking fuel pressure regulator. A coil will either go out hard or will give you an uneven acceleration along with loss of upper RPM power. A defective ignition module will just shut the engine altogether. There may be other failure modes but these are the ones I'm familiar with.

Yeah I did this on an old HEI distributor except with a msd 6 Al basically the only thing left in the distributor is the pickup coil but no module. Then msd makes a cap that lets you snap a wire on for the coil its really simple.

Thanks for the info guys.

Speeder - it's a shop-built engine, not a vortec. Gen-I roller block (not sure what else you need to know). The fuel pressure gauge sits steady at 4.5 psi, and before when the engine would warm up, it ran smoothly - and I read that it's because the coil needs to come up to "operating temperature" to have the full punch that it's rated for. Which is why I'm looking at that first.

Whipped - so that MSD 6 AI, it comes with all the parts? Directions on how to adapter the internal-coil HEI come with it? No "unspoken steps"?

I see. So it's got a carb on it? Usually an engine description would have engine size, generation, fuel style (carb, tbi™, Vortec), headers, ignition type if not stock (we all know what a Vortec ignition looks like), ect. 4.5PSI tells us it's a carb you have on there, and you recently started having problems with the engine idling, which means the choke may need to be set. If the choke is electric, power and ground need to be verified as well as choke operation. A carbed engine that starts fine when warm but is hard to start when cold is usually going to be choke related. Hard starting, rough running, runs more or less OK with throttle, that all says choke. An ignition system is more likely to be affected by heat than by cold so I'd expect the opposite from an ignition problem. As electronics heat up, resistance increases. Next time the engine is cold and off, remove the air cleaner and pop the throttle by hand. The throttle blade should be fully closed. It id doesn't, pump the throttle by hand a couple of times then with the throttle slightly open push down on the choke blade and let the throttle off while holding the choke. Then try starting the engine without touching the gas pedal and see if it runs OK. If it's better then it definitely needs a choke adjustment and depending on the carb type it may need a fuel adjustment.

Hey Speeder!

Here's the specs on it.
Gen 1 block, 350ci (bored to 355)
hydraulic roller rockers
Edlebrock 750 CFM four barrel carb with an electric choke
AFR 195 heads
Customer 1.875 headers

Ignition... all I know is that it's got that HEI distributor I linked to, and non-computer controlled. Battery is a red top Optima that's just a few months old. Alternator is a 140amp alt.

The blade is not fully closed when the engine is cold, the gap is never smaller than about 1/2 of an inch. I'll have to try to find directions on how to set that. It looks like I just need to loosen a screw and turn it? So it should be closed (or nearly closed) when the engine first starts? The "bladeless" side will provide enough air to keep it from flooding?

Thanks for all your help!

There's your problem. The blade should be shut all the way. You may need to pop the throttle to close it when adjusting as there is a stop that will hold it open just a bit for partial cooldown restarts, and you should be able to just loosen the screws on the choke disk and turn it a bit. You want the choke to be right at closed all the way. Let us know how it works. Oh, and the engine needs to be completely cooled down when you adjust it. Tomorrow morning would be the best time to do it.

This is why I hate carbs, their reliability depends on the season of the year and the phase of the moon. I already have a woman, I don't need two things like that.

I don't know about the Edlebrock, but when I had a carburated Dodge, the choke blade had to be adjusted using a drill bit (3/32) as a gauge so that it would be slightly cracked opened.

http://www.ehow.com/how_7668300_adjust-electric-choke-edelbrock-carb.html

Thanks Speeder, and Crazy!! Thank you very much for the link, as well!

I'll give it a shot with the blade fully closed, see how it acts after a few colds starts, and then try the 3/32 adjustment.

I'll report back hopefully later this week - the weekend at the latest.

Thanks again!

Old timer trick with chokes was to take a can of R12 to cool it so they could set it but dont do it all our lungs will thank you lol. Yeah the 6AL had all the instructions heck I was 16 when I did that and didnt know squat. It wont tell you how to convert to an external coil but it will tell you how to remove the ignition module. I never did remove the internal coil I bought all the parts to do it but never put it on. This was on a 68 K10 I still have the truck planning on doing a tbi™ swap someday. Or maybe with the power of tbi™ if I set the motor next to the truck it will find itself into it. The tbi™ is sitting in the bed of it now but hasnt decided the truck is worthy of it or something.

So I finished playing with the choke today - no luck with getting the engine to even start. It just cranked and cranked, no sounds of cylinder firing at all. Checked the fuel pressure, it was fine. Tried again, giving it partial throttle, it'd sputter but never "supported itself", dying as soon as I stopped cranking.

So I figured it's back to the distributor. So I disconnected the battery (the terminals were HOT! - probably from all the high draw of all the cranking I was doing). I decided to try to teach myself about this thing, as I had already read up on how to test a few things, and started taking it apart. This was a bad idea.

I took the dust cover off the coil, unscrewed the four screws on the coil, and (can you guess what I did next?) I lifted the coil up. And as I look at the bottom I see this funny thing, a peg, which falls out. On closer examination - this little thing has a spring on one side, the peg, and a tiny disk (appears to hold the spring onto the peg).

It won't stay on the bottom of the coil on it's own. When I put the peg in the bottom (to sit the coil down on top of the spring) I have no way to know if the spring is going in the hole. Looking how it's sitting, I don't think it would, the spring is leaning a bit, and won't stay up straight no matter what I do. Attempts to get the spring side to stay in the coil long enough to put it back in have also failed.

So, can someone tell me what that peg/spring thing is, and how the heck I'm supposed to seat that thing correctly now?

I was so frustrated with myself over that, I never even got around to taking the multimeter to the wires, though with how I feel now, I'm sure I would have screwed that up too.

I really need to find an "old school" mechanic in my area. lol

There is a rubber disc that holds the spring/bushing in there they should be one piece. that button is your connecton from the coil to the rotor so its goot be right or you wont have spark. a new cap/rotor will come with a new rubber and bushing if it is broken.

Thanks Whipped. Yeah, there was no rubber disk (that I recall/saw), just a small metal one that was used to "crimp" the spring around the peg. Unless you meant a big (half dollar size?) rubber disk?? On the bottom of the ignition coil? That was there. I tried to push the metal disk into the rubber firm enough to get it to hold, but it wouldn't seat/grip.

I don't suppose this could be the cause of my issues? Or do I definitely have something going on with one of the other parts?

I was thinking of taking the cap off completely tomorrow (or trying to), and see if there's a lot of carbon buildup or anything else that looks bonkers. Anything else I should look for?

Yeah that big rubber disc. Now I remember the button/spring goes in first then the disc then the coil. Not really anything to look for but they are common to have bad coils and modules on those.

Thanks Whipped. I didn't realize that big disk came off. I didn't want to mess with anything else after what happened. That makes sense though, it'd be the only way to put that frickin' thing together.

Okay, so going to save up for all new electrical guts for my distributor!

Okay! So I'm going to be replacing the coil and module.
I was going to get them from PerTronix, they seem to have a decent reptuation, and not as pricey as some other systems. Any opinions?

Oh, and that spring/peg thing I was talking about earlier? Found it by complete accident on Summit. It's this thing
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACC-120900/ (You guys already explained what it did, just nice to have found the part!)

Mine still looks really good (best that my amateur eyes can tell), so I don't think I'll replace that. Is there a certain resistance/ohms rating that would tell me I should replace it? Or is that one of those parts that "never go bad unless it's physically broken"?

My plugs also have some nasty dull carbon build up on them from running rich, I read that going a step hotter with the plugs can help. They all pretty much look exactly like the second down on the left here - http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/PlugTales.jpg

Did the last time I changed the plugs, too. I gap them at .045

Thanks again everyone!

The button does wear as the rotor spins on it but Im pretty sure it comes with a new cap so it gets replaced anytine you replace a cap.

Got the new coil and ignition module in today, also replaced the rotor (it probably didn't need it, it didn't look too bad, but at a glance you could see it looked... 'scuffed up'). Cleaned all the carbon and dust out of the cap, put it all together, and after some cranking, it fired right up.

It also ran smoother (when cold) than it used to, which is great.

I still need to play with the choke some more. When the engine is cold, if I left off the gas, it'll die instantly - once it's warm that's not an issue, though. I think I'm doing it right - loosen the three screws on the outside of the electric choke, and twisting it slightly, then tighten the screws back up, right?

Thanks again for all the help guys. I was really nervous about taking this thing apart, but it all went very smoothly!!

Yep, but how's your fast idle set? (Choke on)

Check out this guy's vids. Pretty interesting.