Coating effectiveness?

Performance modifications, tips & tricks

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playtoy_18
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: oklahoma

Coating effectiveness?

Post by playtoy_18 »

Vortec 454 piston,half coated with Techline CBC2
(same coatings used in limited edition GM ZL1 crate engine)
I put my oxy/acytelene torch to it to see if it was any good.
I found it to be rather effective..

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Last edited by playtoy_18 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

playtoy_18
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: oklahoma

Post by playtoy_18 »

Other cool stuff that can be coated for more desireable properties.

Coated LS6 valve springs
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Coated wristpins
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Coated cam
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Coated rockers(pushrod cups/tips) and needle bearing fulcrum retainer cups
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Supercharger rotors/drive gears,throttle and bypass shafts/plates,oil pumps
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BSFC anyone?

hquick
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Location: Melbourne, Oz-----98 K1500 LT Suburban. RHD, 0411, Whipple, Marine, 4L80E, Trutrac, H/boost,E-Fans

Post by hquick »

What about the pie tin? Lol!

Cool stuff Ed.

Boosted-Z71
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:38 pm

Post by Boosted-Z71 »

hquick wrote:What about the pie tin? Lol!

Cool stuff Ed.
Nope I heard it will give a bad taste to the pie, and leave a coating on your tongue

Nice parts Ed, I did the pistons in the SC 98 way back when, well worth it.

Boosted

Hog
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Location: 1997 Chev ECSB L31 350 1997 GMC Sierra SLE RCSB, Ontario

Post by Hog »

GM has done the pistion skirts since 2003 on the GEN 3 and thermal barrier coating on the LQ4/9 piston tops.

Thats a cool pic of the L29 piston, looks like it works well.

Coatings are great so long as they stay in place. They can stop heat transfer, lubricate, and take up clearance, among other things.

peace
Hog

CrazyHoe
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Location: Mtl; '98 2dr4x4 Tahoe, L31,Hookers Long T, 0411,EFIlive, 4L80-E,dual 3",marine int+inj

Post by CrazyHoe »


SikSilverado
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:52 pm
Location: DMX LBZ / Stg4 Trans / WaterInj / PPE

Post by SikSilverado »

ooh... Idears for future build. Want, I do. 8)

playtoy_18
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: oklahoma

Post by playtoy_18 »

Yep,they have retail and shop only products.
Can be done in an oven,depending on product cures @ 350-750*
Just NOT the oven you eat from!
The stuff I used above was CBC2 (piston) CermaLube (ceramic base film) and TLML (moly base film)
Also using some other stuff,but haven't any examples yet.
I'm impressed so far.
Anxiously awaiting finishing build to see how it translates to BSFC.

Cool thing about them is as long as prep and cure is correct,even if it wears where you can't see it,it is still bonded at molecular level to part.
Looking for a gun chronograph to try it on some guns :)

stroker97k1500
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Location: Macon Ga., 94Toyota truck with LSX stuff

Post by stroker97k1500 »

What does bsfc mean.?
I have a lifter bore that I may try putting this on a lifter.....hmmm

playtoy_18
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: oklahoma

Post by playtoy_18 »

Brake Specific Fuel Consumption.
Basically how much friction is lost from internal moving parts and heat/energy lost to cooling system and exhaust.
Engine uses about 1/3 of gas energy potential to actually drive the wheels.
All the rest is lost from due to inefficiency.


On lifters,I have a special coating called PKSX/WSX.
It doesn't have to cure,simply prep and buff on with pressure.
I'm doing lifter bores,cylinders and wristpin bores with it.
It's also what will go into my gun barrel bores.
You do have to hone or blast(120grit) to prep surface however.
It's also a shop only product and not available over counter though.

playtoy_18
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: oklahoma

Post by playtoy_18 »

Been coating other stuuf too now.
The thermal manifold coatings are popular here.
I spray a heat barrier/oil shedding coating on the bottom of the manifold and on the carb flange and mounting flange to keep the heat from the engine out of the manifold and the carb.
Also spray what I can reach in coolant crossover passages and in the runners.


The top gets a cool heat dispersent coating that accelerates heat transfer.
It's pretty cool,you can hold a lighter to the manifold till lighter is to hot to hold and immediately grab te manifold and it's cold to the touch.
I also do a second coating on the runners that helps air velocity and creates a "boundary level turbulence" that keeps fuel in suspension.

It is enough of a difference that these guys are having to jet down and adjust timing to compensate!
Buddy temp'ed his manifold a bit playing around and temps actually dropped BELOW ambient as long as air was passing through the manifold.

Anyway,it's all the rage with nascar and indy cars.
I'm about to do a similar treatment to an eaton M90 supercharger.
The M90 has picked up 2psi and 10hp (dyno'd) with similar coating.
I've done 2 so far,and about to do a well known NHRA engine builders personal 69 charger,if he likes it chances are my coated manifolds will be on more than a couple NHRA stock eliminator engines.
As shown it starts around $150 depending on prep needed.
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z71gmc06
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Post by z71gmc06 »

Very nice!

97k15004wd
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Post by 97k15004wd »

That is good looking stuff!

playtoy_18
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: oklahoma

Post by playtoy_18 »

If your interested in doing it to your own manifold (and have an oven) the products used were Techline coatings TLTD (thermal dispersent/black/top coating) TLLB lubricant barrier coat (bottom/flanges/runners) and TLML (moly lubricant for runner topcoat).
At least on the top manifold mounted on the engine,which is how they reccomend.

The close up pics I used Cermalube (ceramic lubricant) which isn't made to work on top o the others,but wanted to try it.
Done after first coating cured,and beaded up/didn't bond well at first.
That's why it looks splotchy,had to be careful or it would run.
But it came out real nice,and was functional.

Techline coatings also has awesome customer service and the owner of the company is generally who is first to jump in with tech support if needed on their forum.
And i've NEVER has shipping as quick as them either,ever.
Can't say enough good about them and their product,try it.

playtoy_18
Posts: 1904
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
Location: oklahoma

Post by playtoy_18 »

Remember this manifold?
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Well,it's getting coated.
It's new,so thankfully that shaves an hour or more cleaning it.
Here's some of the pics of the process though.
First it had to be thoroughly cleaned,so as not to contaminate the aluminum oxide in my blast cabinet.
Then it's off to the blast cabinet for blasting with 120 grit aluminum oxide.
This etches the surface for the coating to bite into. Sand is too dusty and inconsistent,glass beads tend to not be sharp enough to create a bite surface and close the pores of the metal.
Here's after blasting.
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The bolts are in the holes mainly for media control.
Less of a chance of getting media in the holes that might escape cleaning and find its way into..anything.
They will also function as "stands" so I can flip manifold over while coating and not mess up the coating.

Next it got thoroughly blown out with 160psi of air to get any media cleaned out.
From there,high pressure wash with water to clean out anything remaining.
After that,it's into the oven for "de-gassing".
It gets heated to a temperature above curing temperature to allow anything trapped in the metal to burn off.
Cure temp is 350*,I degas at 400* for 1hr.
Even being new and having been thoroughly cleaned it smoked quite a bit for awhile.
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Next I taped off several areas for this particular manifold.
Generally I don't tape anything cause I just have to clean the residue off and it's more work.
Usually just spray,and any light overspray is wiped off with acetone before curing.
But wanted to try something different,so I taped it off so I could spray heat barrier on the fuel rail mounting tabs as well as the threads where the various temps sensors go.
Generally these would be sprayed over with the heat transfer coating.
This way,i'm hoping to keep any heat from transferring into the rails,as well as the sensors.
I figure the sensors will then be more accurate reading just air and coolant flow.
Sorry,forgot to take a pic of it taped off.
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Next it get thoroughly cleaned yet again,this time with acetone.
Finally,ready to start spraying.
I use a detail spray gun,i've got 3 that I use.
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Heat barrier coating is first.
The product is called TLLB and is a lubricating,oil shedding heat barrier.
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It goes on the mounting flanges to keep heat from the heads from transferring to manifold.
Also on the bottom,to keep oil splash from heating manifold as well as shed oil.
(most engine builders have used ceramic paint for this in the past,most NHRA cars paint under valve covers,manifold and in lifter valley)
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The carb mounting flange is also coated to keep any manifold heat out of the carb (or in this case elbow and TB).
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I also coat the cooling passages to keep coolant heat from bleeding into the manifold.
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The runners also get this coating,to keep heat in the manifold isolated from the airflow.
Pretty tricky to get in there,takes some patience. Usually have a couple bare spots but thats okay.
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Ready for flash cure-10m@200*
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After the flash cure I go back over the runners with TLML which is a moly dry film lubricant.
This is what will keep the air moving and on a carb vehicle keep the fuel in suspension.
I didn't take a pic,cause you can't tell its there when spraying. When dry however it turns a dark chocolate color.
Doesn't need to be perfect or complete coverage.
Almost just didn't use since no carb,but it helps with airflow pretty sure and if water methanol is used in it then it will help same as it would with fuel.
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Now to fully cure for 1hr@350*.
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    Last edited by playtoy_18 on Wed May 02, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

    playtoy_18
    Posts: 1904
    Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
    Location: oklahoma

    Post by playtoy_18 »

    Okay,now that the other stuff is cured we're ready for the final coating.
    This is what the barrier looks like when cured,a chocolate brown color.
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    Next up is the top coating TLTD,which is a thermal transfer coating.
    This will allow the manifold to bleed off heat into the air alot faster than normal,as long as air is passing over or through the manifold.
    I've heard reports of some manifolds with thermal coating actually frosting during hard dyno runs,i can't substantiate that personally though(engine on dyno at friends machine shop,unknown coating).
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    Didn't take any pics while doing it,basically just spraying it on.
    After it is cured however,I went back over a few spots where the aluminum soaked some of it up.
    I was really unhappy with some bare spots I couldn't spray. In the grand scheme it shouldn't make alot of difference but I would know.
    So I was advised by Leonard (president of Techline) that it is acceptable to sponge on difficult to reach places.
    Here is going back into the oven after touchups,i'll have completed pics up when it comes out of oven in a few.
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    And here's completed pics mocked up with the rails.
    Rails could be polished a bit along with brass,but i'm imagining some polished valve covers also and that would really finish it off!

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    Sorry the bad pics,phone camera and bad lighting.
    Hopefuuly have it boxed and ready to ship out tomorrow.
    Hope Pacific member Crazyhoe enjoys it and more horsepower.
    Last edited by playtoy_18 on Wed May 02, 2012 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

    CrazyHoe
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    Post by CrazyHoe »

    Looks good! Cool stuff Ed.

    SikSilverado
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    Post by SikSilverado »

    I'm curious to see the results. I want to build an LML duramax to replace the LBZ.. Be nice to coat everything and see how much friction and heat I can reduce.

    playtoy_18
    Posts: 1904
    Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
    Location: oklahoma

    Post by playtoy_18 »

    Coating the exhaust manifold and turbine will show nice gains in diesels.
    I have no personal results,but all my research shows dramatic improvement in power and mileage.
    Offhand,I remember a test by an independent company.
    They took a semi,dyno'd it and logged it's mileage on a fixed route.
    After 6mos they coated exhaust and turbo turbine,and logged another 6mos.
    IIRC it showed a 10% improvement in mileage,which is about what everyone else notices.
    Don't know much about big trucks,but I imagine 10% is quite a bit of improvement considering.
    I can look for more info on the test from newsletter if wanted,wrote it down in my notes.

    This was using Cermakrome exhaust coating which is made by techline.
    I haven't tried it yet,it needs to be polished after coating and only efficient way is using a large vibratory tumbler.

    I would love to see a test incorporating the heat transfer coating on the intake,compressor and intercooler along with header coating.

    playtoy_18
    Posts: 1904
    Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:07 pm
    Location: oklahoma

    Post by playtoy_18 »

    Grrr...
    Was going to finish up coating it tonight,but wanted to touch up some unsightly areas.
    Doesn't affect function,but I can be OCD. So touched up the small areas and quickly did a bit more in the runners as the Al soaked a bit up.
    Wasn't paying attention and grabbed the wrong can though,and oversprayed in heat dispersent.
    Took almost a half gallon of acetone to clean it all out.
    That wouldn't have been good. Actually caught it after I put back in the oven and was sitting down.
    Realized the coating was greyish while spraying,when should have been black.
    Checked the can and sure enough...durr.

    Got it all cleaned off now,gotta clean gun and respray touchups and then do topcoat.

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